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Confused with job offers! - Help
Hey guys
I am a very confused final year student! I am in a very lucky position in that I am expecting a 1st class honours in Finance, have 2 Bulge Bracket IBD internships under my belt and have 4 job offers for when I graduate.
My dilema is that I do not know which offer to take!
- Goldmans uk classic execution IBD
- JPM Cazenove UK M&A
- Nomura IBD rotation
- Houlihan Lokey Restructuring
The first three on the list are obviously classic M&A IB dealing with healthy companies, whereas the forth is a specialist market leading Restructuring and special situations group that deals in distressed M&A and liquidations.
My knowledge and experience is on the classic side of IB and I know what to expect, especially from the BB! GS, JPM and Nomura are all excellent names to have on the cv and provide great exit opps............
however
I liked the feel of Houlihans as the team there was amazing! Houlihans has a very good name in the states and has dealt with most of the huge restructuring deals - ie enron, conseco, worldcom........
I was also thinking that this summers credit crunch will lead to a lot of companies and PE firms defaulting on debt obligations - making the restructuring practice extremely busy and ultimately a more secure choice.
Offers expire this week
1) GS - 38K 5 sign on
2) JPM - 37k 5 sign on
3) Nomura - 36K 6 sign on
4) Houlihan - 40K 5 sign on
Any advice???
I am a very confused final year student! I am in a very lucky position in that I am expecting a 1st class honours in Finance, have 2 Bulge Bracket IBD internships under my belt and have 4 job offers for when I graduate.
My dilema is that I do not know which offer to take!
- Goldmans uk classic execution IBD
- JPM Cazenove UK M&A
- Nomura IBD rotation
- Houlihan Lokey Restructuring
The first three on the list are obviously classic M&A IB dealing with healthy companies, whereas the forth is a specialist market leading Restructuring and special situations group that deals in distressed M&A and liquidations.
My knowledge and experience is on the classic side of IB and I know what to expect, especially from the BB! GS, JPM and Nomura are all excellent names to have on the cv and provide great exit opps............
however
I liked the feel of Houlihans as the team there was amazing! Houlihans has a very good name in the states and has dealt with most of the huge restructuring deals - ie enron, conseco, worldcom........
I was also thinking that this summers credit crunch will lead to a lot of companies and PE firms defaulting on debt obligations - making the restructuring practice extremely busy and ultimately a more secure choice.
Offers expire this week
1) GS - 38K 5 sign on
2) JPM - 37k 5 sign on
3) Nomura - 36K 6 sign on
4) Houlihan - 40K 5 sign on
Any advice???
Scroll to see replies
Tough choice!
I would take it down to two options if I were you. Firstly divide them into IBD and Restructuring, i.e. Nomura is certainly out of the question and JPM pales in comparison to GS. Your choice would be between Houlihan and GS.
This depends whether you want to do Restructuring or IBD, but to choose Restructuring in this case you must want it much more than IBD since, lets face it, GS IBD is in a league of its own.
I would take it down to two options if I were you. Firstly divide them into IBD and Restructuring, i.e. Nomura is certainly out of the question and JPM pales in comparison to GS. Your choice would be between Houlihan and GS.
This depends whether you want to do Restructuring or IBD, but to choose Restructuring in this case you must want it much more than IBD since, lets face it, GS IBD is in a league of its own.
Goldman (1st choice) and JPM Caz (2nd choice)...
More transaction experience less pitching (compared to Nomura)
Exit opportunities after IBD higher with GS and JPM
These banks also do restructuring....
More transaction experience less pitching (compared to Nomura)
Exit opportunities after IBD higher with GS and JPM
These banks also do restructuring....
I am actually very interested in the Restructuring side of IB and the more I read into it the more I want to do it.....however it is a big decision - hence my confusion.
I would also like to add that Restructuring at Houlihans would give me far greater experience in Restructuring than in any of the BB banks.....yes GS does have a restructuring team but it is Houlis and Blackstone that are winning all the mandates!!! For restructuring Houlis has won the European Restructuring House of the Year for the last 3 Years.
I agree for M&A Nomura is out - JPMCaz is vey traditional and a bit stuck up so really it comes down to M&A Goldmans vs Restructuring Houlis.
Exit ops for M&A - Goldmans is the creme
Exit ops for PE or HF - Houlihans is the creme
??????????
I would also like to add that Restructuring at Houlihans would give me far greater experience in Restructuring than in any of the BB banks.....yes GS does have a restructuring team but it is Houlis and Blackstone that are winning all the mandates!!! For restructuring Houlis has won the European Restructuring House of the Year for the last 3 Years.
I agree for M&A Nomura is out - JPMCaz is vey traditional and a bit stuck up so really it comes down to M&A Goldmans vs Restructuring Houlis.
Exit ops for M&A - Goldmans is the creme
Exit ops for PE or HF - Houlihans is the creme
??????????
This sounds like willy-waving of the highest order.
plus1
Hey guys
I am a very confused final year student! I am in a very lucky position in that I am expecting a 1st class honours in Finance, have 2 Bulge Bracket IBD internships under my belt and have 4 job offers for when I graduate.
My dilema is that I do not know which offer to take!
- Goldmans uk classic execution IBD
- JPM Cazenove UK M&A
- Nomura IBD rotation
- Houlihan Lokey Restructuring
The first three on the list are obviously classic M&A IB dealing with healthy companies, whereas the forth is a specialist market leading Restructuring and special situations group that deals in distressed M&A and liquidations.
My knowledge and experience is on the classic side of IB and I know what to expect, especially from the BB! GS, JPM and Nomura are all excellent names to have on the cv and provide great exit opps............
however
I liked the feel of Houlihans as the team there was amazing! Houlihans has a very good name in the states and has dealt with most of the huge restructuring deals - ie enron, conseco, worldcom........
I was also thinking that this summers credit crunch will lead to a lot of companies and PE firms defaulting on debt obligations - making the restructuring practice extremely busy and ultimately a more secure choice.
Offers expire this week
1) GS - 38K 5 sign on
2) JPM - 37k 5 sign on
3) Nomura - 36K 6 sign on
4) Houlihan - 40K 5 sign on
Any advice???
I am a very confused final year student! I am in a very lucky position in that I am expecting a 1st class honours in Finance, have 2 Bulge Bracket IBD internships under my belt and have 4 job offers for when I graduate.
My dilema is that I do not know which offer to take!
- Goldmans uk classic execution IBD
- JPM Cazenove UK M&A
- Nomura IBD rotation
- Houlihan Lokey Restructuring
The first three on the list are obviously classic M&A IB dealing with healthy companies, whereas the forth is a specialist market leading Restructuring and special situations group that deals in distressed M&A and liquidations.
My knowledge and experience is on the classic side of IB and I know what to expect, especially from the BB! GS, JPM and Nomura are all excellent names to have on the cv and provide great exit opps............
however
I liked the feel of Houlihans as the team there was amazing! Houlihans has a very good name in the states and has dealt with most of the huge restructuring deals - ie enron, conseco, worldcom........
I was also thinking that this summers credit crunch will lead to a lot of companies and PE firms defaulting on debt obligations - making the restructuring practice extremely busy and ultimately a more secure choice.
Offers expire this week
1) GS - 38K 5 sign on
2) JPM - 37k 5 sign on
3) Nomura - 36K 6 sign on
4) Houlihan - 40K 5 sign on
Any advice???
I hate you!!!!!!
Congrats on the offers...to me it sounds like Houlihan is where you really want to be...
I had a very interesting conversation with an interviewer once. He told me how to choose between places to work. Ultimately if you are good enough you will have a job and be well paid in all of these places this is not an issue, you should be worried about the place where you will be able to perform your best in order to achieve this. Considering your work relies on the people you work with a lot I would try to meet them and learn about the work environment and culture before accepting/rejecting any offer.
It is acceptable for you to call them up and mention your status in terms of other applications. It is clear that they want you and you can say that you are leaning towards choosing their offer but would just like to get a feel for the people and environment you would be working with. They should have absolutely no problem with this and often you will get a senior member of the team actually take you to dinner/drinks to convince you. And I guess if they have a problem with you exploring your options then they dont really care about you and its not the place you should be choosing?
It is acceptable for you to call them up and mention your status in terms of other applications. It is clear that they want you and you can say that you are leaning towards choosing their offer but would just like to get a feel for the people and environment you would be working with. They should have absolutely no problem with this and often you will get a senior member of the team actually take you to dinner/drinks to convince you. And I guess if they have a problem with you exploring your options then they dont really care about you and its not the place you should be choosing?
Go for the brand man. Houlihan focuses mostly on the mid-market...the big boys like JP and GS bag the bigger FT-front page types of deals...Better training, better infastructure, better flexibility to move into other departments when you want to move into trading, etc. Do you want to work in a boutique type of environment or a big corporate environment? Its up to you I guess. BUt yeh, at the end of the day...the people, culture, and the feeling you got of this when you met them should be a significant factor. But the brand is also important and the deal flow.
Portfolio I agree with what you are saying about an M&A team at houlihans - if I was soley going for M&A I would be going for GS!
However restructuring at houlihans is a BB player - they do all the big $$ deals - for this reason the flexibility and exit opps are very good - espec to move into top pe firms or hf.
The confusion I have is - Restructuring or the brand name of GS!
Thanks for all the advice and helping me think it through
However restructuring at houlihans is a BB player - they do all the big $$ deals - for this reason the flexibility and exit opps are very good - espec to move into top pe firms or hf.
The confusion I have is - Restructuring or the brand name of GS!
Thanks for all the advice and helping me think it through
HoodTrader
It is acceptable for you to call them up and mention your status in terms of other applications. It is clear that they want you and you can say that you are leaning towards choosing their offer but would just like to get a feel for the people and environment you would be working with. They should have absolutely no problem with this and often you will get a senior member of the team actually take you to dinner/drinks to convince you. And I guess if they have a problem with you exploring your options then they dont really care about you and its not the place you should be choosing?
It is acceptable for you to call them up and mention your status in terms of other applications. It is clear that they want you and you can say that you are leaning towards choosing their offer but would just like to get a feel for the people and environment you would be working with. They should have absolutely no problem with this and often you will get a senior member of the team actually take you to dinner/drinks to convince you. And I guess if they have a problem with you exploring your options then they dont really care about you and its not the place you should be choosing?
Excellent advice HoodTrader!
I would do what HoodTrader has said above also try not to under estimate who you will be working with as others have said since they will also determine how you perform. For me, I would like to work with great/nice people even if it means a few k less for Salary.
Restructuring is a hot market and HLHZ is a top player no doubt. You choice should be between IBD and restructuring as they are very different roles. Since you're dealing with chap 11 type companies, you ultimately focus much more on cash flow generation whereas traditional IBD has much more focus on LBO models etc.
Tough choice. It should come down to product, but turning down Goldman M&A is tough given you would want to first build some stabilty into your franchise.
But taking HL is not a bad call at all. They have led some of the largest credit side deals in the world (they may have even led enron)
If you want restructuring, you should've have applied to blackstone - then this would be a no-brainer.
Tough choice. It should come down to product, but turning down Goldman M&A is tough given you would want to first build some stabilty into your franchise.
But taking HL is not a bad call at all. They have led some of the largest credit side deals in the world (they may have even led enron)
If you want restructuring, you should've have applied to blackstone - then this would be a no-brainer.
Houlis did lead Enron! and Worldcom + Conseco! I have already made teh choice that I want to go into restructuring! I feel that it will really be hot in the next few years and that m&a will be slower.....
I did apply to Blackstones but it was through their US site - as the restructuring team is in the states - there is no team in the UK. However looking at league table HLHZ ranks higher on $ deals and deals done.....of course the majority are for the creditor but I am happy with my choice.
Just to be sure I have declined the GS role on friendly terms and hopefully that will not stand against me in the future!
Thanks for all the advice guys
I did apply to Blackstones but it was through their US site - as the restructuring team is in the states - there is no team in the UK. However looking at league table HLHZ ranks higher on $ deals and deals done.....of course the majority are for the creditor but I am happy with my choice.
Just to be sure I have declined the GS role on friendly terms and hopefully that will not stand against me in the future!
Thanks for all the advice guys
rboogie
'hot market'
'chap 11 type companies'
'cash flow generation'
'It should come down to product'
'first build some stabilty into your franchise'
'credit side deals'.
'hot market'
'chap 11 type companies'
'cash flow generation'
'It should come down to product'
'first build some stabilty into your franchise'
'credit side deals'.
lovin the city lingo.lol
I'm very surprised at the responses I'm seeing here.
You'd be utterly mad not to take Goldman Sachs M&A. Out of anything in banking, it (along with Blackstones) is perhaps the best possible place to start your career. The most reputable brand recognition, the best wow factor, the highest calibre of people, exposure to some of the biggest deals happening.. yes the hours are hell but just stay there 2-3 years and you're absolutely sorted regarding exit opportunities to top MBA schools, move onto the buy side (hedge funds love GS M&A exp) or a more relaxed M&A house.
Whereas Houlihan Lokey is a lot more niche/specialist. Nobody outside the banking world's heard of it, no kudos for working for a random firm.. I doubt the grads it'll take on will be that high calibre, these small niche places even though good tend to take on people who couldn't get into a BB. Also what you're doing there rather specific and harder to move around, especially if you see the restructuring side as not for you.
You'd be utterly mad not to take Goldman Sachs M&A. Out of anything in banking, it (along with Blackstones) is perhaps the best possible place to start your career. The most reputable brand recognition, the best wow factor, the highest calibre of people, exposure to some of the biggest deals happening.. yes the hours are hell but just stay there 2-3 years and you're absolutely sorted regarding exit opportunities to top MBA schools, move onto the buy side (hedge funds love GS M&A exp) or a more relaxed M&A house.
Whereas Houlihan Lokey is a lot more niche/specialist. Nobody outside the banking world's heard of it, no kudos for working for a random firm.. I doubt the grads it'll take on will be that high calibre, these small niche places even though good tend to take on people who couldn't get into a BB. Also what you're doing there rather specific and harder to move around, especially if you see the restructuring side as not for you.
mayavara
I'm very surprised at the responses I'm seeing here.
You'd be utterly mad not to take Goldman Sachs M&A. Out of anything in banking, it (along with Blackstones) is perhaps the best possible place to start your career. The most reputable brand recognition, the best wow factor, the highest calibre of people, exposure to some of the biggest deals happening.. yes the hours are hell but just stay there 2-3 years and you're absolutely sorted regarding exit opportunities to top MBA schools, move onto the buy side (hedge funds love GS M&A exp) or a more relaxed M&A house.
Whereas Houlihan Lokey is a lot more niche/specialist. Nobody outside the banking world's heard of it, no kudos for working for a random firm.. I doubt the grads it'll take on will be that high calibre, these small niche places even though good tend to take on people who couldn't get into a BB. Also what you're doing there rather specific and harder to move around, especially if you see the restructuring side as not for you.
You'd be utterly mad not to take Goldman Sachs M&A. Out of anything in banking, it (along with Blackstones) is perhaps the best possible place to start your career. The most reputable brand recognition, the best wow factor, the highest calibre of people, exposure to some of the biggest deals happening.. yes the hours are hell but just stay there 2-3 years and you're absolutely sorted regarding exit opportunities to top MBA schools, move onto the buy side (hedge funds love GS M&A exp) or a more relaxed M&A house.
Whereas Houlihan Lokey is a lot more niche/specialist. Nobody outside the banking world's heard of it, no kudos for working for a random firm.. I doubt the grads it'll take on will be that high calibre, these small niche places even though good tend to take on people who couldn't get into a BB. Also what you're doing there rather specific and harder to move around, especially if you see the restructuring side as not for you.
Agreed!
No one heard of Blackstone three years ago and now any piddly M&A analyst from Goldman is dying to make the move. No one heard of KKR a couple years ago either, but the kids making carry there are the ones who took the plunge.
I know a guy who joined this piddly bank called Barclays Capital in the 1980's to join some desk revolving credit derivatives. Let's just say he turned out alright.
The safe choice is goldman, the bold buy side balls on to make more money in the long run choice is Houleys. Restructuring is the hottest market right now and Houleys is an effing machine that is growing by the day.
Goldman gives you further options if you want to switch, but if this kid wants restucturing and wants a chance at carry, Houleys is a pretty awesome play.
You join up and comers on the way up, not while they're maturing. (Which, given Blackstone's latest numbers, may even be the case for them)
Anyway, tough call. 99% of kids take Goldmans because it's safe, but then again, 99% of bankers also never make it to the top either where the real money is made.
I know a guy who joined this piddly bank called Barclays Capital in the 1980's to join some desk revolving credit derivatives. Let's just say he turned out alright.
The safe choice is goldman, the bold buy side balls on to make more money in the long run choice is Houleys. Restructuring is the hottest market right now and Houleys is an effing machine that is growing by the day.
Goldman gives you further options if you want to switch, but if this kid wants restucturing and wants a chance at carry, Houleys is a pretty awesome play.
You join up and comers on the way up, not while they're maturing. (Which, given Blackstone's latest numbers, may even be the case for them)
Anyway, tough call. 99% of kids take Goldmans because it's safe, but then again, 99% of bankers also never make it to the top either where the real money is made.
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