The Student Room Group

Struggling with my faith (Muslim)

Hello, I'm not sure how long this will be so if people took the time to read this it would be much appreciated.

A bit of background information; I'm 18 years old born and and raised in the UK as a Muslim and I suppose my parents aren't that strict. I didn't really practice Islam until I was about 14 (I did fast and had read the Quran but didn't pray) but when I was around 14 I started to more seriously practice and try learning about the religion. However, it ended up throwing me into a feeling of depression as I started to get really intrusive thoughts about Allah I just couldn't focus on anything. I was told these were whispers from Shaitan and being 14 I just accepted it and moved on but eventually stopped practicing islam because the thoughts became too much and I became so depressed I just gave up. From then up until recently I've classed myself as Muslim and haven't really practiced Islam in terms of praying but have been really happy and the thoughts have gone away.

Now what's been happening recently; as you probably know, Ramadan was this past month and I fasted as normal and this was also the first time in years I had performed my prayers and I'll admit, I felt good and wanted to continue practicing Islam from now on and becoming closer to my religion. However, I've started to suffer a repeat of when I was 14 and am having the same intrusive thoughts which are making it difficult to concentrate on even daily menial tasks and I has once again stopped me from praying. However, being 18 now, I have more issues with religion than I did when I was 14;
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?

My issue is that I know I would never have the guts to leave Islam because I'm still terrified of going to hell. I don't know if it's because the idea has been indoctrinated into my life for 18 years of what, but I am scared. Also, though I've been brought up in a Muslim family and did go to Islamic school when I was younger, I haven't studied Islam that much and I know there's loads that I don't know but like I said, I've been brought up for 18 years being told this is right so I guess I never felt the need to really analyse, study or question it :/ idk I'm just feeling lost and don't want to make a big decision I'll regret.

If anyone read all of this haha any (civil) advice would be appreciated :smile:


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quick question, boy or ****?
Original post by Kano Jeffers
quick question, boy or ****?


Why did you censor the word girl lmao


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by zombie-dance
Hello, I'm not sure how long this will be so if people took the time to read this it would be much appreciated.

A bit of background information; I'm 18 years old born and and raised in the UK as a Muslim and I suppose my parents aren't that strict. I didn't really practice Islam until I was about 14 (I did fast and had read the Quran but didn't pray) but when I was around 14 I started to more seriously practice and try learning about the religion. However, it ended up throwing me into a feeling of depression as I started to get really intrusive thoughts about Allah I just couldn't focus on anything. I was told these were whispers from Shaitan and being 14 I just accepted it and moved on but eventually stopped practicing islam because the thoughts became too much and I became so depressed I just gave up. From then up until recently I've classed myself as Muslim and haven't really practiced Islam in terms of praying but have been really happy and the thoughts have gone away.

Now what's been happening recently; as you probably know, Ramadan was this past month and I fasted as normal and this was also the first time in years I had performed my prayers and I'll admit, I felt good and wanted to continue practicing Islam from now on and becoming closer to my religion. However, I've started to suffer a repeat of when I was 14 and am having the same intrusive thoughts which are making it difficult to concentrate on even daily menial tasks and I has once again stopped me from praying. However, being 18 now, I have more issues with religion than I did when I was 14;
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?

My issue is that I know I would never have the guts to leave Islam because I'm still terrified of going to hell. I don't know if it's because the idea has been indoctrinated into my life for 18 years of what, but I am scared. Also, though I've been brought up in a Muslim family and did go to Islamic school when I was younger, I haven't studied Islam that much and I know there's loads that I don't know but like I said, I've been brought up for 18 years being told this is right so I guess I never felt the need to really analyse, study or question it :/ idk I'm just feeling lost and don't want to make a big decision I'll regret.

If anyone read all of this haha any (civil) advice would be appreciated :smile:


Posted from TSR Mobile


Do you think the religion is true?
Reply 4
Original post by zombie-dance
Hello, I'm not sure how long this will be so if people took the time to read this it would be much appreciated.

A bit of background information; I'm 18 years old born and and raised in the UK as a Muslim and I suppose my parents aren't that strict. I didn't really practice Islam until I was about 14 (I did fast and had read the Quran but didn't pray) but when I was around 14 I started to more seriously practice and try learning about the religion. However, it ended up throwing me into a feeling of depression as I started to get really intrusive thoughts about Allah I just couldn't focus on anything. I was told these were whispers from Shaitan and being 14 I just accepted it and moved on but eventually stopped practicing islam because the thoughts became too much and I became so depressed I just gave up. From then up until recently I've classed myself as Muslim and haven't really practiced Islam in terms of praying but have been really happy and the thoughts have gone away.

Now what's been happening recently; as you probably know, Ramadan was this past month and I fasted as normal and this was also the first time in years I had performed my prayers and I'll admit, I felt good and wanted to continue practicing Islam from now on and becoming closer to my religion. However, I've started to suffer a repeat of when I was 14 and am having the same intrusive thoughts which are making it difficult to concentrate on even daily menial tasks and I has once again stopped me from praying. However, being 18 now, I have more issues with religion than I did when I was 14;
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?

My issue is that I know I would never have the guts to leave Islam because I'm still terrified of going to hell. I don't know if it's because the idea has been indoctrinated into my life for 18 years of what, but I am scared. Also, though I've been brought up in a Muslim family and did go to Islamic school when I was younger, I haven't studied Islam that much and I know there's loads that I don't know but like I said, I've been brought up for 18 years being told this is right so I guess I never felt the need to really analyse, study or question it :/ idk I'm just feeling lost and don't want to make a big decision I'll regret.

If anyone read all of this haha any (civil) advice would be appreciated :smile:


Posted from TSR Mobile

You should leave it. It's clearly making you miserable. And anyway, what kind of god would send you to hell for not really believing in him, while still being a good person? Would you really want to spend eternity with someone like that? I.don't.think.so. Join Christianity if you really need religion in your life, at least they now believe that atheists are better than hypocritical Christians.
Reply 5
I understand that you're going through a hard/confusing time right now. PM me if you want to talk about things in detail/need advice, otherwise i'd probably write out a comprehensive essay haha. I'm a Muslim btw :smile:
Contrary to popular belief, Islam encourages critical thinking and questioning. You don't follow Islam just because it's how you were raised. You follow it because you have examined it properly and have drawn your own conclusions.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by zombie-dance
Hello, I'm not sure how long this will be so if people took the time to read this it would be much appreciated.

A bit of background information; I'm 18 years old born and and raised in the UK as a Muslim and I suppose my parents aren't that strict. I didn't really practice Islam until I was about 14 (I did fast and had read the Quran but didn't pray) but when I was around 14 I started to more seriously practice and try learning about the religion. However, it ended up throwing me into a feeling of depression as I started to get really intrusive thoughts about Allah I just couldn't focus on anything. I was told these were whispers from Shaitan and being 14 I just accepted it and moved on but eventually stopped practicing islam because the thoughts became too much and I became so depressed I just gave up. From then up until recently I've classed myself as Muslim and haven't really practiced Islam in terms of praying but have been really happy and the thoughts have gone away.

Now what's been happening recently; as you probably know, Ramadan was this past month and I fasted as normal and this was also the first time in years I had performed my prayers and I'll admit, I felt good and wanted to continue practicing Islam from now on and becoming closer to my religion. However, I've started to suffer a repeat of when I was 14 and am having the same intrusive thoughts which are making it difficult to concentrate on even daily menial tasks and I has once again stopped me from praying. However, being 18 now, I have more issues with religion than I did when I was 14;
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?

My issue is that I know I would never have the guts to leave Islam because I'm still terrified of going to hell. I don't know if it's because the idea has been indoctrinated into my life for 18 years of what, but I am scared. Also, though I've been brought up in a Muslim family and did go to Islamic school when I was younger, I haven't studied Islam that much and I know there's loads that I don't know but like I said, I've been brought up for 18 years being told this is right so I guess I never felt the need to really analyse, study or question it :/ idk I'm just feeling lost and don't want to make a big decision I'll regret.

If anyone read all of this haha any (civil) advice would be appreciated :smile:


Posted from TSR Mobile


It's great that you're freeing yourself from the shackles of indoctrination, and questioning stuff rather than just accepting it at face value.

I can't go into some big theological debate, because I am not qualified to do so. However, I am qualified to have an opinion. If the only thing that's keeping you in this 'religion' is a fear of going to some imagined hell with burning fires and devils with hooves and horns, then that's a very poor reason to restrict and limit your life and its opportunities. Free yourself from it - don't fear and live your life in the shadow of something for which there is no evidence for.
Original post by Thatlost1
Do you think the religion is true?


That seems to be my main issue, I really don't know :/ I just accepted it was because it's how I've been brought up


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Reality Check
It's great that you're freeing yourself from the shackles of indoctrination, and questioning stuff rather than just accepting it at face value.

I can't go into some big theological debate, because I am not qualified to do so. However, I am qualified to have an opinion. If the only thing that's keeping you in this 'religion' is a fear of going to some imagined hell with burning fires and devils with hooves and horns, then that's a very poor reason to restrict and limit your life and its opportunities. Free yourself from it - don't fear and live your life in the shadow of something for which there is no evidence for.


I concur but social pressure and family pressure play a massive part. When you are told these religions are part of your identity -"who we are"- it seems like a act of betrayal for leaving. I'm british/african and people from my back round get angry at me for leaving christianity, accuse me of "Trying to act white".
Original post by Kano Jeffers
no I put
S
L
A
G
but it got censored. By your response I assume youre a **** since you wouldn't say


Well I'm not so...



Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by zombie-dance
That seems to be my main issue, I really don't know :/ I just accepted it was because it's how I've been brought up


Posted from TSR Mobile


On a 1-10 how sure are you that its true?(10 being strongest)
Original post by Thatlost1
I concur but social pressure and family pressure play a massive part. When you are told these religions are part of your identity -"who we are"- it seems like a act of betrayal for leaving. I'm british/african and people from my back round get angry at me for leaving christianity, accuse me of "Trying to act white".


Yes, I get that :smile: I know leaving a religion is an absolutely HUGE thing, and particularly with something like Islam which seems to get into every aspect of someone's life. It's natural that you're going to face hostility for even suggesting you leave - and people will do anything they can to threaten and coerce you into remaining. But what you need to ask yourself is **** all that - is it right for you? This is the only thing that matters here - it's your life, and it's not a dress rehearsal. Do you want to live your life in the shadow of this religion which mandates every part of your life, tells you how to think, how to act, and how to treat other people, or do you want to be your own free agent, able to make up your own mind about things, develop your own sense of what's right and wrong and manage your own moral compass? Surely the latter is infinitely preferable?
I've been an ex Muslim so long that I can't relate to the in-between phase anymore lol

Since you don't want to make any rash decisions, I'd say take your time to think about it. Read the Quran in English (or another language you understand) and think about whether you agree with it anymore.
Original post by Thatlost1
I concur but social pressure and family pressure play a massive part. When you are told these religions are part of your identity -"who we are"- it seems like a act of betrayal for leaving. I'm british/african and people from my back round get angry at me for leaving christianity, accuse me of "Trying to act white".


That's silly, not all white people are Christians etc etc
Original post by stemmery
That's silly, not all white people are Christians etc etc

No, they tell me the idea of not being christian -being an atheist- is trying to be 'white'. It's a silly guilt tactic trying to appeal to my identity construct, but luckily I don't use race as a basis to form my opinions.
(edited 6 years ago)
OP - You shouldn't be worried about leaving something you don't completely believe in because of the 'consequences'. I've always had an issue with religion for this reason, my family would never answer any of my questions and instead just tell me to 'believe it because that's what we do' and that just wasn't something I wanted to do.

I suggest talking to someone who could explain things to you, answer any questions you have and see if you then understand it a little more. If not, you'll be more equipped to leave it.

I always tell people my religion because that's what they expect from me, but I haven't believed in it for years.

I think religion is just a way to keep people in line, to have people do what they want.

If you're a good person and you feel like you're doing the best you can in life for yourself and for others then I wouldn't worry about 'going to hell'. I personally don't believe it exists and I also would like to think that if there is a God/Gods then he/she/it wouldn't be as ruthless as to send people to hell because they didn't believe.

There are religious believers who kill and sin all the time- sometimes in the name of God - don't think for a second that they're going to heaven or paradise because they claim that what they are doing is for their religion. It doesn't work like that - at least I don't think it does - do good and you'll be forgiven for not believing if it is all true in the after life.
Original post by Thatlost1
No, they tell me the idea of not being christian -being an atheist- is trying to be 'white'. It's a silly guilt tactic trying to appeal to my identity construct, but luckily I don't use race as a basis to form my opinions.


Oh atheism is linked with being white? Yeah I think using race and linking to religious belief is silly tbh
Do you think it would be easy for you to leave your faith? Would your parents accept it? You are naturally questioning it because it is false and it is absird to base your life on a book. You will lead a happier and more fulfilled life as an atheist.
Original post by zombie-dance
Hello, I'm not sure how long this will be so if people took the time to read this it would be much appreciated.

A bit of background information; I'm 18 years old born and and raised in the UK as a Muslim and I suppose my parents aren't that strict. I didn't really practice Islam until I was about 14 (I did fast and had read the Quran but didn't pray) but when I was around 14 I started to more seriously practice and try learning about the religion. However, it ended up throwing me into a feeling of depression as I started to get really intrusive thoughts about Allah I just couldn't focus on anything. I was told these were whispers from Shaitan and being 14 I just accepted it and moved on but eventually stopped practicing islam because the thoughts became too much and I became so depressed I just gave up. From then up until recently I've classed myself as Muslim and haven't really practiced Islam in terms of praying but have been really happy and the thoughts have gone away.

Now what's been happening recently; as you probably know, Ramadan was this past month and I fasted as normal and this was also the first time in years I had performed my prayers and I'll admit, I felt good and wanted to continue practicing Islam from now on and becoming closer to my religion. However, I've started to suffer a repeat of when I was 14 and am having the same intrusive thoughts which are making it difficult to concentrate on even daily menial tasks and I has once again stopped me from praying. However, being 18 now, I have more issues with religion than I did when I was 14;
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?

My issue is that I know I would never have the guts to leave Islam because I'm still terrified of going to hell. I don't know if it's because the idea has been indoctrinated into my life for 18 years of what, but I am scared. Also, though I've been brought up in a Muslim family and did go to Islamic school when I was younger, I haven't studied Islam that much and I know there's loads that I don't know but like I said, I've been brought up for 18 years being told this is right so I guess I never felt the need to really analyse, study or question it :/ idk I'm just feeling lost and don't want to make a big decision I'll regret.

If anyone read all of this haha any (civil) advice would be appreciated :smile:


Posted from TSR Mobile


Its good to see you explaining the areas you have issues with. Hopefully I can clear some of the confusion up and use some sources to back up what I say.

I'll address each of the five points you talk about separately.
Firstly, even in Islam, it is not frowned upon to question your faith. There are many sectors of Islam, each believing in slighting different things, there are scholars who have differing opinions with one another etc. So looking for answers is the best way to go, much better than accepting what you are told. As what you could have been told could be outright lies themselves. For example, in some muslim countries they oppress women, don't give them an education etc. These acts are indeed against Islam, and these people claim it to be from their religion, when its indeed their culture.

Original post by zombie-dance
-the sole idea of people, even the nicest, most selfless, generous, etc. people burning in hell forever just because they don't believe in God to me is sick and unjust


Not every non-muslim is going to hell, that is not true and the scholars outrightly believe this. There are a number of types of people Those who receive the word and accept it, Jahil Mughassir and Jahil Ghasir [1].

The first, those tho receive a pure word from God and accept it. Are those who sometime in their life see a sign, read something or investigate it for themselves and believe that there is only a single God and follow their signs.

Jahil Mughassir, are people "who find out what right is and what wrong is, those who understand what the reality and the truth beyond the physical world is but they become and remain hostile to the truth and bear enmity towards God. (These are the absolute minority of non-Muslims)."[1] So they understand theres god, they understand theres rules, but they still choose to not accept it. They spread lies to others, corrupt the truth.

Jahil Ghasir: "The second group consists of those who have not had even a single way to find out the reality of the world. It has not been their fault that they have not reached the truth. Those who are exposed to intense propaganda against Islam and think it is impossible that such a religion (distorted image of Islam) might be the right way to salvation, or those Christians, Jews or even atheists who have searched enough and have been convinced, based on reasons, that their beliefs are right (though their reasons are invalid and wrong), or those who basically do not have the mental ability to distinguish between right and wrong and many other people will be counted in this group. The absolute majority of non-Muslims are like this." [1]

Many scholars believe that the majority of non-muslims are the last type, Jahil Ghasir and they will not go to hell. There are many verses indicating that non-muslims wont be punished either [The Quran 99:7–8, 9:106, 4:97–99] . Furthermore you have people who are exempted, they are weak or aren't able to plan things for themselves therefore forced to believe in one thing and aren't able to choose. Those who believe in Judaism and Christianity are classified as believers also [Qur'an 2:62, 5:69]

Now you must be thinking, that all muslims are safe then and go to heaven? No that it also totally wrong.

The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.” (Ibn Majah, Kitab al-Fitan)"

That shows that even those who are Muslim have been forseen to willingly not follow the religion correctly and therefore will also be punished.

So no, not all non-muslims will go to hell, not all muslims will go to heaven either.

Original post by zombie-dance
-we're no longer living in the same world and society as we were centuries ago and I just feel as though, in general, religion isn't a necessity in people's lives and issues such as undermining of women and homophobia don't belong in or society today. Of course if you're religious I have no issue with that, you do/believe whatever you want, but personally it has added nothing extra to my life and I feel it's just not the answer for me. I know it provides satisfaction and fulfilment for some people but I haven't felt that.


The foundations of society have actually largely remained the same for centuries, and will do so for centuries to come. We still have the family basis, kids still go and get an education, there are laws which must be followed, if you break the law in the country you're punished (going to prison, pay a fine), stealing is forbidden, murder is forbidden, parents usually work and provide for their house (regardless of whether its a single or both parents), humans still break the law, humans still lie, humans still hurt each other and go to war. Foundationally we are still the same.

The undermining of women has been a problem for centuries, it hasn't just popped out of nowhere. What is changed is that we have better laws, so everyone can speak up about their injustice, do a protest and organise movements without being prosecuted. That is mainly the fault of western society, because in the west, traditionally the man is the breadwinner. Therefore they are usually given higher pays, better hours, more equality. But now, Woman are doing the same roles. Western society hasn't caught up in actually giving both sexes the same rights in the workplace.

Relate to Islam, Women were given progressive rights since the 7th Century AD. Women aren't inferior or not-equal. In old Arabia, Islam gave women the rights to choose who to marry, right to education, right to their own property, right to be treated as a human and not as property, right to vote, right to use the law. [Qur'an 2:228, 9:72, 3:195, 3:36, 33:35]

The prophet encouraged women to be active in society, social, political, economic and even in the military. There are many women who were Soldiers, Political advisors, and ran business during the Prophets lifetime.

"“It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great prophets of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yes I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher.”" Annie Besant, Prominent Theosophist, Women’s rights activist, writer and orator, “The life and Teachings of Muhammad”. Madras 1932, p 4.

Now in terms of homosexuality, well that is forbidden across all the abrahamic religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam. If homosexuality had a benefit to the human race, then we would have evolved around it, we would have catered for it after all these millions of years. But we clearly haven't.

To breed, you still need male and females. Children need both a mother and father.
Recent studies that suggest same-sex households are "not-different" are clearly flawed. We do not have enough evidence to support any of their claims. Study using a random sample showed those with married moms and dads did better at school and employment [2]. Professors have shown that mothering and fathering have different responsibilities and cause different effects [3].

Currently all western media, TV shows, radios, Podcasts, YouTube etc. are using psychological warfare on everyday people to convince them of this LGBT stuff. Making it bigger than it actually is. Look for yourself, on kids shows it is shown as normal. Some kids are even taught that its fine to choose whatever bathroom they feel like, changing their gender doesn't matter. If you ask actual Trans people, they say this is wrong. They say its extremely difficult having to pay and take hormones for the rest of their lives. Children are confused growing up as is, why is the culture forcing issues on them they don't already have. Despite LGBT+ suicide rates are still increase within the community...


Original post by zombie-dance
-I dislike the idea that religion implies you need faith/God to have morals. I know I'm a good person and whenever I've done good things, god hasn't been on my mind, I've done those things because I just genuinely want to be a nice and good person. People are now advanced enough to know what's right and what's wrong without having a book tell them that. Also, the idea of sex, alcohol, meat, etc. has never really appealed to me so I'm not just saying I want to leave Islam to try and 'fit in with westerners' as I'm sure a couple people will be bound to argue.


Unfortunately I believe you have misunderstood the meaning of religion. Religion implies you identify who created this world and everything in it. I know lots of people, who don't believe in God, but have good morals and are very kind hearted. You can still believe in God and have bad morals, just like major drug cartels and crimea whom pray that they'll build churches and mosques if their drug/hit deal goes to plan. The coin flips both ways.

People, unfortunately aren't advanced enough to know all this. We still have to go to school, school still teaches us the fundamentals. Even in this age of information abundance its difficult to find what is right and wrong, true and false.

You don't have to have sex, alcohol, meat to fit in. I know muslims and christians who break all these rules but still claim to be religious. Its the person.


Original post by zombie-dance
-If I were born in, say, India or Japan, I would be brought up believing that Hinduism or Buddhism is 100% true so what makes Islam so special?


Thats not true, those countries have all major religions there as well. Its a higher chance that you'd believe in Hinduism or Buddhism, but near 100%. You would still be exposed to the others.

Buddhism is a different religion altogether. Its about understanding the reality of life and ending the suffering through spiritual development. Buddhism seems more of a philosophy.

Original post by zombie-dance
-The Quran states Allah guides those he wants to guide and when he puts you through bad situations it's a test of your faith but that seems totally unfair to me; if someone is trying to practice the religion Allah wants them to believe in them why guide them astray just because they're not someone he wants to guide of put them through bad situations that actually end up destroying instead of strengthening their faith, it doesn't make sense? And I find it ridiculous how we're told we shouldn't blame God of something goes wrong, but must thank him when something goes well; is he not supposed to be responsible for everything?


Its not unfair, its the same as taking tests in school. Why should you take a test, everyone should be given As by default? No, that is not fair. Tests are to see how well we are doing, where we lack and what we need todo to overcome and become better. If life was easy then there wouldn't be the point of anything. We wouldn't need to work, no need to get money, no need to become better people. Its only through hardship do we see our true selves and try to become better. God is responsible for everything, so when bad things happen, well we need to understand why and try to prevent it. After all, all we humans do is chase perfection.

Hopefully this helps somewhat, if you have more questions or if i've been unclear please just post more.

[1] https://www.quora.com/Are-all-non-Muslims-going-to-hell-according-to-Islam
[2] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/10/the-regnerus-study-social-science-on-new-family-structures-met-with-intolerance
[3] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/03/marriage-what-it-is-why-it-matters-and-the-consequences-of-redefining-it
Original post by internal619
Its good to see you explaining the areas you have issues with. Hopefully I can clear some of the confusion up and use some sources to back up what I say.

I'll address each of the five points you talk about separately.
Firstly, even in Islam, it is not frowned upon to question your faith. There are many sectors of Islam, each believing in slighting different things, there are scholars who have differing opinions with one another etc. So looking for answers is the best way to go, much better than accepting what you are told. As what you could have been told could be outright lies themselves. For example, in some muslim countries they oppress women, don't give them an education etc. These acts are indeed against Islam, and these people claim it to be from their religion, when its indeed their culture.



Not every non-muslim is going to hell, that is not true and the scholars outrightly believe this. There are a number of types of people Those who receive the word and accept it, Jahil Mughassir and Jahil Ghasir [1].

The first, those tho receive a pure word from God and accept it. Are those who sometime in their life see a sign, read something or investigate it for themselves and believe that there is only a single God and follow their signs.

Jahil Mughassir, are people "who find out what right is and what wrong is, those who understand what the reality and the truth beyond the physical world is but they become and remain hostile to the truth and bear enmity towards God. (These are the absolute minority of non-Muslims)."[1] So they understand theres god, they understand theres rules, but they still choose to not accept it. They spread lies to others, corrupt the truth.

Jahil Ghasir: "The second group consists of those who have not had even a single way to find out the reality of the world. It has not been their fault that they have not reached the truth. Those who are exposed to intense propaganda against Islam and think it is impossible that such a religion (distorted image of Islam) might be the right way to salvation, or those Christians, Jews or even atheists who have searched enough and have been convinced, based on reasons, that their beliefs are right (though their reasons are invalid and wrong), or those who basically do not have the mental ability to distinguish between right and wrong and many other people will be counted in this group. The absolute majority of non-Muslims are like this." [1]

Many scholars believe that the majority of non-muslims are the last type, Jahil Ghasir and they will not go to hell. There are many verses indicating that non-muslims wont be punished either [The Quran 99:7–8, 9:106, 4:97–99] . Furthermore you have people who are exempted, they are weak or aren't able to plan things for themselves therefore forced to believe in one thing and aren't able to choose. Those who believe in Judaism and Christianity are classified as believers also [Qur'an 2:62, 5:69]

Now you must be thinking, that all muslims are safe then and go to heaven? No that it also totally wrong.

The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.” (Ibn Majah, Kitab al-Fitan)"

That shows that even those who are Muslim have been forseen to willingly not follow the religion correctly and therefore will also be punished.

So no, not all non-muslims will go to hell, not all muslims will go to heaven either.



The foundations of society have actually largely remained the same for centuries, and will do so for centuries to come. We still have the family basis, kids still go and get an education, there are laws which must be followed, if you break the law in the country you're punished (going to prison, pay a fine), stealing is forbidden, murder is forbidden, parents usually work and provide for their house (regardless of whether its a single or both parents), humans still break the law, humans still lie, humans still hurt each other and go to war. Foundationally we are still the same.

The undermining of women has been a problem for centuries, it hasn't just popped out of nowhere. What is changed is that we have better laws, so everyone can speak up about their injustice, do a protest and organise movements without being prosecuted. That is mainly the fault of western society, because in the west, traditionally the man is the breadwinner. Therefore they are usually given higher pays, better hours, more equality. But now, Woman are doing the same roles. Western society hasn't caught up in actually giving both sexes the same rights in the workplace.

Relate to Islam, Women were given progressive rights since the 7th Century AD. Women aren't inferior or not-equal. In old Arabia, Islam gave women the rights to choose who to marry, right to education, right to their own property, right to be treated as a human and not as property, right to vote, right to use the law. [Qur'an 2:228, 9:72, 3:195, 3:36, 33:35]

The prophet encouraged women to be active in society, social, political, economic and even in the military. There are many women who were Soldiers, Political advisors, and ran business during the Prophets lifetime.

"“It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great prophets of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yes I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher.”" Annie Besant, Prominent Theosophist, Women’s rights activist, writer and orator, “The life and Teachings of Muhammad”. Madras 1932, p 4.

Now in terms of homosexuality, well that is forbidden across all the abrahamic religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam. If homosexuality had a benefit to the human race, then we would have evolved around it, we would have catered for it after all these millions of years. But we clearly haven't.

To breed, you still need male and females. Children need both a mother and father.
Recent studies that suggest same-sex households are "not-different" are clearly flawed. We do not have enough evidence to support any of their claims. Study using a random sample showed those with married moms and dads did better at school and employment [2]. Professors have shown that mothering and fathering have different responsibilities and cause different effects [3].

Currently all western media, TV shows, radios, Podcasts, YouTube etc. are using psychological warfare on everyday people to convince them of this LGBT stuff. Making it bigger than it actually is. Look for yourself, on kids shows it is shown as normal. Some kids are even taught that its fine to choose whatever bathroom they feel like, changing their gender doesn't matter. If you ask actual Trans people, they say this is wrong. They say its extremely difficult having to pay and take hormones for the rest of their lives. Children are confused growing up as is, why is the culture forcing issues on them they don't already have. Despite LGBT+ suicide rates are still increase within the community...




Unfortunately I believe you have misunderstood the meaning of religion. Religion implies you identify who created this world and everything in it. I know lots of people, who don't believe in God, but have good morals and are very kind hearted. You can still believe in God and have bad morals, just like major drug cartels and crimea whom pray that they'll build churches and mosques if their drug/hit deal goes to plan. The coin flips both ways.

People, unfortunately aren't advanced enough to know all this. We still have to go to school, school still teaches us the fundamentals. Even in this age of information abundance its difficult to find what is right and wrong, true and false.

You don't have to have sex, alcohol, meat to fit in. I know muslims and christians who break all these rules but still claim to be religious. Its the person.




Thats not true, those countries have all major religions there as well. Its a higher chance that you'd believe in Hinduism or Buddhism, but near 100%. You would still be exposed to the others.

Buddhism is a different religion altogether. Its about understanding the reality of life and ending the suffering through spiritual development. Buddhism seems more of a philosophy.



Its not unfair, its the same as taking tests in school. Why should you take a test, everyone should be given As by default? No, that is not fair. Tests are to see how well we are doing, where we lack and what we need todo to overcome and become better. If life was easy then there wouldn't be the point of anything. We wouldn't need to work, no need to get money, no need to become better people. Its only through hardship do we see our true selves and try to become better. God is responsible for everything, so when bad things happen, well we need to understand why and try to prevent it. After all, all we humans do is chase perfection.

Hopefully this helps somewhat, if you have more questions or if i've been unclear please just post more.

[1] https://www.quora.com/Are-all-non-Muslims-going-to-hell-according-to-Islam
[2] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/10/the-regnerus-study-social-science-on-new-family-structures-met-with-intolerance
[3] http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/03/marriage-what-it-is-why-it-matters-and-the-consequences-of-redefining-it


This has been very helpful, thank you so much :smile:


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