10 charts that show the effect of tuition fees Watch

MrDystopia
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Interesting article in the BBC's '10 charts' series, this time on the subject of the fee rises. You can click here to see the charts/graphs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40511184

The 10 findings were as follows:

- England's tuition fees higher than most countries
- University applications keep rising
- Poorer students still less likely to go to university
- Students will graduate with debts of more than £50,000
- Overall amount of student debt has risen past £100bn
- Fee changes result in differences in spending/money made per student depending on subject
- Students are less convinced that they are getting value for money
- Having a degree still results, on average, in better pay and lower likelihood of unemployment
- Potential earnings of course depend on choice of degree
- Part time students hit hardest by higher fees

What do you think about this? Do the pros of the fee rises outweigh the benefits, or do you hold the opposite opinion on this?
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cbreef
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Free tuition is good for everyone in the long term. Glad I'm a Scot.
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black1blade
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Being 57 (probably over 70 as I'll probably go onto do a masters) is a pretty depressing prospect.
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sdotd
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i wouldn't mind free tuition fees for proper subjects. Too many mickey mouse courses these days
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BigYoSpeck
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(Original post by MrDystopia)
- England's tuition fees higher than most countries
Other than America it's one of the more competitive places to get your education.

- University applications keep rising
The fees have practically turned higher education into a commercial enterprise, it's much more heavily marketed than it used to be. And increasingly in the future, you're going to need a higher education to be employable.

- Poorer students still less likely to go to university
I think this is cultural rather than lack of opportunity. At 18 I didn't feel under pressure to go to university, it wasn't really something my family did, and going to mediocre comprehensive schools didn't help. My social circles just weren't educated so it wasn't normalised for me and I wasn't really aware of its value.

There is a gradual, but exponential trend though that the more people you get into higher education, the more normalised it becomes and so on.

- Students will graduate with debts of more than £50,000
The amount of the debt itself is irrelevant, it's the duration of repayments and how large those repayments are. They're reasonable now, but the current repayment threshold we're all agreeing to repay at isn't being adjusted with cost of living so that £21k amount won't seem quite as generous in 25 years.

- Overall amount of student debt has risen past £100bn
Given the amount of this debt that won't be repaid, I think the impact to the economy of that is a bigger deal than the students themselves having it. I worry it's another bubble that could cause serious harm once the money has to start being written off.

- Fee changes result in differences in spending/money made per student depending on subject
Some subjects you can see where those fees are being spent. Labs for science and engineering courses obviously aren’t cheap. But what are some of the departments actually spending those fees on? Serious question, how expensive is an English department to actually run?

- Students are less convinced that they are getting value for money
Quite simply not all are. If you’re studying a course with obvious prospects at a well-regarded university then the value is easy to see. But the students signing up for courses with way more places than there are jobs are just being fleeced.

- Having a degree still results, on average, in better pay and lower likelihood of unemployment
On average. And I think it’s a case of those at the extreme far right of the bell curve for those metrics massively skewing the average and hiding how many students don’t have this positive experience.

(Original post by sdotd)
i wouldn't mind free tuition fees for proper subjects. Too many mickey mouse courses these days
I agree. Universities need to start being held accountable for the prospects of students on some courses. Tuition fees are a reasonable investment for a lot of subjects. But universities should be held to account for the commercialisation of these mickey mouse courses that have no prospects while they are saddling young people with debt for them.

I don't think it's fair to expect 18 year olds to make 100% wise choices for the rest of their life when they have no life experience. I consider it exploitation.
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Golden State
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People should look at alternative options to University, such as apprenticeships and self-employment. A university degree does not necessarily lead to a life-long career. Plus, there's too much competition these days for jobs, so you're always having to compete with other students for the top grades, extra curricular activities, and internships before finishing your degree.
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Arran90
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How does Switzerland manage so well with a smaller percentage of its youngsters going to university?

Has Britain got anything to learn from the Swiss educational system?
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MeYou2Night
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Its not real debt though. You cant default on it, it doesn't effect your credit score, you cant be repossessed over it , you only pay back after you earn a certain amount and its written off after 30 years whether youve paid a penny or all but a penny off.

the media and TSR (especially the employed TSR community team on here) need to stop scaremongering about it.
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sdotd
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(Original post by Arran90)
How does Switzerland manage so well with a smaller percentage of its youngsters going to university?

Has Britain got anything to learn from the Swiss educational system?
too many people go to uni. only people who get Cs at A Level should be allowed to go. at the moment students with Ds and Es get in
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an_atheist
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(Original post by MrDystopia)
Interesting article in the BBC's '10 charts' series, this time on the subject of the fee rises. You can click here to see the charts/graphs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40511184

The 10 findings were as follows:

- England's tuition fees higher than most countries
- University applications keep rising
- Poorer students still less likely to go to university
- Students will graduate with debts of more than £50,000
- Overall amount of student debt has risen past £100bn
- Fee changes result in differences in spending/money made per student depending on subject
- Students are less convinced that they are getting value for money
- Having a degree still results, on average, in better pay and lower likelihood of unemployment
- Potential earnings of course depend on choice of degree
- Part time students hit hardest by higher fees

What do you think about this? Do the pros of the fee rises outweigh the benefits, or do you hold the opposite opinion on this?
Maybe we should try to reduce the number of people going to uni? that seems to me to be driving the rise in fees.
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BigYoSpeck
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(Original post by sdotd)
too many people go to uni. only people who get Cs at A Level should be allowed to go. at the moment students with Ds and Es get in
I think everyone should be able to gain higher education, but it should be in a realistic vocation. If someone is achieving D's and E's at A-level odds are against them succeeding in a competitive field that is really only suited to people in the upper intelligence percentiles.

But they should still be able to gain higher qualifications in something that gives them more hope than working in a call centre or packing boxes in a factory. Those roles don't require a human to do them, even people of more average or below average intelligence are still relatively speaking highly intelligent organisms capable of more complex and rewarding tasks than those.

Is there much point in studying astrophysics if you got D's or E's at A-level? No of course not. But there are other more vocational courses where they can learn more practical skills that will allow them a more productive life than simply abandoning education.

Those people gaining qualification doesn't devalue the degree for a student who got A grades and a 1st. But they shouldn't be mis-sold a degree that's no use to them. And worse these universities that say to those students that they'll take them onto the foundation year first to milk another year of tuition fees out of them. It's a scam.
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Tiger Rag
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(Original post by BigYoSpeck)
Some subjects you can see where those fees are being spent. Labs for science and engineering courses obviously aren’t cheap. But what are some of the departments actually spending those fees on? Serious question, how expensive is an English department to actually run?
Lecturers wages and the general upkeep of uni buildings, etc?
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BigYoSpeck
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(Original post by Tiger Rag)
Lecturers wages and the general upkeep of uni buildings, etc?
You don't say? Well fancy that, here's me thinking they spend it all on novelty ties!

I posed the question because in relative budget terms, I can't imagine how an English department costs X * £9250 per year when the budget is effectively a tutor, a room, and some library books.

It's hardly like a stem department with labs and technical equipment.
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