2.2 degree + MSc with Merit + Starting a second MA, chances for Phd at decent uni?

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Hey

I have a 2.2 degree and a master with Merit, both in law. I'm starting a new MA this September in an unrelated subject (Security).
I'm planning to apply for non-funded PhDs afterwards. The issue is, not many universities in London consider applications related to Security and War Studies, basically only UCL and KCL...

For example, UCL's website advertises as entry requirements: good upper second class degree. I would be tempted to say that I don't stand a chance, but I got a place in a KCL MA course which requires first class/high 2.1 degrees, thanks to my Merit in my first master.
Are PhD's different? or my 2.2 will still be an issue?

Also, how important is the university reputation when it comes to Phd's?

Thanks in advance! :smile:

I think its definitely possible, as your most recent degree will be the one which is most important, and i'd stress that you had issues with English during your undergraduate degree.
With just a merit at masters though its unlikely you'd be able to make a competitive application for funding (which doesn't matter for you), so try to get a distinction for your next masters course.
I would be worried about doing a unfunded phd (see here https://www.timeshighereducation.com/features/ten-steps-to-phd-failure for example). Even if you can self-fund, at least try to apply for funding.
There are always going to be phd supervisors who don't have funding and may take you on, but they are not likely to be the best ones. If you don't have funding the department and your supervisor don't really have much commitment towards seeing you progress. In addition, its not going to look good for a future academic career if you can't secure phd funding (a huge part of doing research is actually trying to get the money to fund your research, applying for fellowships, etc...), although if you want to go into something else that would be fine (but then doing a phd may end up being a waste of money).

And, as other people have mentioned, university reputation is the least important factor about doing a phd, really what matters is doing new and important research, although the research environment (i.e. quality of supervision, having helpful colleagues) your in will probably be correlated to some extent with reputation.

Reply 21

rbgpwer

Original post by Dot.Cotton

Not a chance. End of story, book closed.

Thanks for being so optimistic. I don't believe in that kind of reasoning sorry. Everyone told me I stand no chance to achieve certain things I did achieve, and still, I end up getting there, from the back door, slowly but nothing is impossible believe me.

Reply 22

rbgpwer

Original post by iammichealjackson

Thank you very much for your detailed advice :smile:

Reply 23

threeportdrift

Careers Forum Helper

Original post by Reality Check

Yes, our system does seem different to the continental one with regards to 2ii and PhD's. I'm sure there are PhD candidates with 2ii's in Britain, but I've never heard of one! Where do you study by the way?

Reply 24

Reality Check

Original post by threeportdrift

You got it...

Reply 25

Herts PG Student Repsdafaf

Regarding 2:2's and PhD's.

You can do a PhD with a 2:2 undergraduate and at a decent university. I know of several people who have done/are doing so.

Further to this a strong MA after achieving a 2:2 may not mitigate it. BUT, it does improve your chances.

As mocha said earlier, a strong MA dissertation/thesis will help lots as it proves you have research ability. As would a research background through work or extra curricular activities.

This is all within the UK.

I'm not sure where the 2:2 barrier information/perception is coming from. Especially when some rare PhD students do not even have a standard undergraduate degree but present a strong proposal and good work background.

Also second edit: Apologies guys! If you can secure funding, then it's always preferable!

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 26

Reality Check

Original post by David Trebus

You can do a PhD with a 2:2 undergraduate and at a decent university. I know of several people who have done/are doing so.

I'm not sure where the 2:2 barrier information/perception is coming from. Especially when some rare PhD students do not even have a standard undergraduate degree but present a strong proposal and good work background.

Hi David,

I think some people might find it, shall we say surprising that you can 'do a PhD at a decent university with a 2ii (and that 2ii isn't the result of exceptional circumstances) and even more surprising that some rare PhD students don't even have an undergraduate degree. For the benefit of these people who might be using this thread to make decisions about their futures, would you perhaps be able to point us towards these good universities who take on PhD candidates with a 2ii or no undergraduate degree?

Thanks.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 27

Herts PG Student Repsdafaf

Hey Reality Check.

Sure. I know someone who studied up in Edinburgh a while back with a 2:2 in a humanities subject. I also know someone in Hertfordshire who's doing one now.

But, I can understand how people may find it a little surprising. I think the most important thing is having a decent and strong proposal and approaching the team in the University you wish to study at well in advance to discuss the matter.

I think in this situation. Having the strongest MA you can, helps a great deal.The Edinburgh example, they achieved a distinction at MA level. The current example they presented a very strong proposal.

It's also worth noting that I'm also one of the 2:2 brigade. Although, I got mine due to as you mentioned, exceptional circumstances. Which is why I'm being considered.
I also have a good grounding in my field through experience.

Regarding not having an undergraduate degree. I can't substantiate it with an example I'm afraid :frown:

. I'm just aware it has occurred due to a couple of articles I read in the past. Although in those cases, it certainly would be due to an exceptional circumstance rather than the rule.

My main point in writing all this is: While a 2:2 is certainly not a good thing when applying for a future PhD. It does not preclude the possibility, just makes it a little more challenging.
I'm certain people may be rejected, especially with all the competition. Even more so with funded opportunities. BUT, it's always worth trying.
Self funding is also always an option if you can find somewhere with a decent team that won't just use you as a cashcow. There are also bursaries to consider.

I hope all this is of potential help to someone!

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 28

Reality Check

Original post by David Trebus

Thanks David! I think people will find that comprehensive post really helpful :smile:

Reply 29

Boreen

You certin can. Espically non-funded PhDs. I know actually know three people. On worked for few year after he graduated. One went on to do Master then finished Phd at Leicester is now a Postdoc. Second one is graduate from Liverpool John Moore, barely pass (fail his final but manage to pass) his Master had went on to a fully funded Phd in Bristol. From my understand PhD are no longer just how well you do academically. University reputation are also not too important for Phd's. What matter is your supervisor and paper you going to publish.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 30

Herts PG Student Repsdafaf

Original post by Reality Check

Thanks David! I think people will find that comprehensive post really helpful :smile:

No problems!

Reply 31

RamocitoMorales

rbgpwer

Just an update for the OP, who may find it to be of inspiration: I have now been accepted for a PhD position in Austria, where I will be paid a salary of around €40,000 a year.

Reply 32

Akamega

Congratulations! That stipend...😨
Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 33

aware1

Sorry but funded PhD is extremely unlikely. To get funded you need at least a very high 2:1, Masters can be a pass, merit or distinction but that depends on the university. If you went to Oxbridge then a pass/merit is enough, if you went to a top 20 then a merit/distinction is fine. Otherwise its not.

Get a high grade in your MA and you should be fine. I'd recommend applying next year, when you have your grade. As with current grades your chances are pretty slim.

Otherwise I'm sorry but your chances are extremely slim to none. Start saving up.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 34

RamocitoMorales

Original post by Akamega

Congratulations! That stipend...😨
Posted from TSR Mobile

Thank you, but it's not a stipend. In the vast majority of European countries, a doctoral position is a paid position and you are an employee of the university (i.e. not a student). The advantages include the standard benefits of being an employee as well as the paycheck; however, unlike a stipend, it is subject to taxes so I won't be keeping all of that. :tongue:

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 35

MR1999

Original post by Reality Check

The reputation of the uni isn't the important thing at posgrad level - it's the reputation and standing of your PI/supervisor and group which is the important thing.

How can you find out if your supervisor has a good reputation and high standing?

Reply 36

RamocitoMorales

Original post by Desmos

How can you find out if your supervisor has a good reputation and high standing?

You can check publications, collaborators, citations, etc.

Reply 37

MR1999

Original post by RamocitoMorales

You can check publications, collaborators, citations, etc.

So before you apply, you would know who your supervisor is?

Reply 38

Reality Check

Original post by Desmos

How can you find out if your supervisor has a good reputation and high standing?

Look at the research output of his or her group. Does he publish regularly - and are his PhD students appearing at the top? Go to symposia and seminars to get a feel of who's hot in the field at the moment. Do the usual research into the group and PI using publicly available information.

Essentially, do a bit of legwork. :smile:

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 39

Reality Check