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Should Charlie Gard be left to die? watch

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rlie-Gard.html

    This little kid is braindead and terminally ill. He's only alive because of life support in a hospital, and his parents won't let him die. They want to take him to the US for an experimental treatment with something like 1% chance of helping him. Not curing him - he'd still be brain damaged, blind, deaf, paralysed and in constant pain, it'd just help him live a bit longer.

    Doctors say he's in pain and want to let him die. A judge ruled he can't be taken to the US.

    Now the uneducated masses on social media are calling the hospital "murderers". I just feel bad for the doctors that save lives every day, going through hell, and now have to deal with thicko scum calling them killers for not saving this one. They're doing what's best for the child, not the parents, but some clueless morons are brutally attacking them for it.

    So much money has been wasted on this. He's taking up space and care in a charity-funded hospital, and their parents have raised thousands. He has 0% chance of ever getting better. Why are people so obsessed over this? Why are people happy for someone with no chance of ever getting better taking resources desperately needed by people who do have a chance? Where were all these virtue-signalling donors when the hospital needed money before it was trendy on social media? How do these stupid, nasty people actually think they know better than a consensus of medical professionals?
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    What scares me is the fact his parents still think there's a chance he can be a normal kid. They're so unbelievably deluded/in denial, it's sad to see.
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    I think, in this case, the doctors are right. He's living in pain, and frankly, spending your life hooked up to a life support machine isn't truly living. Taking him to the US will put him in lots of suffering, and the drug might not even work. Even if it does, he'll only get a few more years of pain at the most. So I don't think it's worth it, as it's better for his suffering to come to an end rather than him spending a year hooked up the life support machine in pain.
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    What scares me is the fact his parents still think there's a chance he can be a normal kid. They're so unbelievably deluded/in denial, it's sad to see.
    For their parents it's understandable - this situation could tip anyone over the edge.

    But the uneducated, uninformed, vile people spouting off about this on social media without even bothering to inform themselves are disgusting. The circus they're creating, ruining the reputation of a childrens' hospital and harassing the staff is unforgivable, all for the sake of virtue signalling. These people are scum.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    For their parents it's understandable - this situation could tip anyone over the edge.

    But the uneducated, uninformed, vile people spouting off about this on social media without even bothering to inform themselves are disgusting. The circus they're creating, ruining the reputation of a childrens' hospital and harassing the staff is unforgivable, all for the sake of virtue signalling. These people are scum.
    That's the Daily Mail readership for you.
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    Yes, unfortunately

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    Unfortunately yes. It's grossly unfair on the child... not to mention that the doctors could be spending their time on patients that have at least a vague chance of recovery.
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    At this point the parents are just prioritising what they want over whats right for the child, all they'd be doing is prolonging his death and subjecting him to more suffering.
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    The poor child isn't even properly alive. The machine is doing everything for him as he effectively cannot do anything. These experimental drugs have very little evidence supporting them and may cause him even more suffering. And that's if he even ever gets them. In the event that the court allows him to be moved, he's unlikely to survive the transfer as he's so weak. I understand people wanting to give him a chance and I feel so sorry for his parents but there is so little hope that it is probably best to let him go. Then his suffering will end and his parents can finally start trying to move on and rebuild their lives. The doctors aren't murderers - in fact, given how long he's been in hospital being kept alive, they are quite the opposite and now it's just a matter of what's best for Charlie.
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    If it's their first child i can understand why they might be trying so hard to keep him alive, but with the state he is in now it's just cruel to keep him suffering.
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    I think its a sad fact of life these days, that too many doctors and their registrars are having to sit down, and choose, maybe 1 out of 30 patients to admit or treat next, and some of the other thirty will die because of it.

    So the chances are that it will happen to a member of yours, mine family.

    [Thanks New Labour for letting millions upon millions of people into this country, whose lives you have put in front of the native Britons who voted for you, whilst lying about it, and not asking us. That sounds pretty awful, and people are people, good or bad, educated or not, black brown or white, they all deserve the same level of treatment, but when the chips are down and its your dad or the guy who arrived from Africa last week, you choose your Dad, dont you? All beause you wanted to 'ram immigration down the throats of the tories' Makes you wonder sometimes, if our two party system is one of the most destructive political systems you can adopt! Course its too late now to do anything about anything. Horse Gate Bolted]
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    Yes. they need to know when to let go and that part of being a good parent is knowing that. Interventions by Trump and the Pope havent helped.
    The Drs and courts are right.
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    (Original post by Rover73)
    I think its a sad fact of life these days, that too many doctors and their registrars are having to sit down, and choose, maybe 1 out of 30 patients to admit or treat next, and some of the other thirty will die because of it.

    So the chances are that it will happen to a member of yours, mine family.

    [Thanks New Labour for letting millions upon millions of people into this country, whose lives you have put in front of the native Britons who voted for you, whilst lying about it, and not asking us. That sounds pretty awful, and people are people, good or bad, educated or not, black brown or white, they all deserve the same level of treatment, but when the chips are down and its your dad or the guy who arrived from Africa last week, you choose your Dad, dont you? All beause you wanted to 'ram immigration down the throats of the tories' Makes you wonder sometimes, if our two party system is one of the most destructive political systems you can adopt! Course its too late now to do anything about anything. Horse Gate Bolted]

    Despite the fact under new labour the NHS had low waiting times and you’d rarely hear about people being refused treatment. This case isn’t even about waiting lists/capacity it’s about not having effective treatments available. Your statistics are also wrong, please back them up in anyway.

    Considering the NHS had none of these issues in 2010 you don’t suppose it has anything to do with the Tory cuts and austerity? Something NHS bosses, doctors and nurses have been constantly complaining about and raising the danger of? No? Oh right, it’s all because of immigration under Blair and Brown despite the fact the numbers were bigger under Cameron who specifically made a promise to cut it to the 10,000’s, a crucial reason he kind of won in 2010. Your arguments are weak, baseless, offensive and pathetic.
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    The number were bigger under Cameron? Were they? You mean pro rata, because I dont think he let in 3-4 million people did he? [If we can believe those figures]

    The one in thirty figure is a quote directly from a registrar at my local hospital. As the 'Dad' example is happening to me right now. I have to take care of my old man, he has cancer and various other serious ailments, and these 'figures' are just conversations Ive had with his doctors and registrars.

    So its not mean to be a debating point for me. Sadly, Its just the ways things are around here anyway....

    So as for them being baseless. No, thyere not, unless Im being lied to by my Dads doctors and registrars.
    Offensive? They were offensive, for not asking us, if we wanted immigration at those levels.
    Pathetic? Really. Wait till you're beloved family members are dying horribly and its all up to you to deal with.

    [Yes I roamed Off topic] Its just on my mind.
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    (Original post by Rover73)
    The number were bigger under Cameron? Were they? You mean pro rata, because I dont think he let in 3-4 million people did he? [If we can believe those figures]

    The one in thirty figure is a quote directly from a registrar at my local hospital. As the 'Dad' example is happening to me right now. I have to take care of my old man, he has cancer and various other serious ailments, and these 'figures' are just conversations Ive had with his doctors and registrars.

    So its not mean to be a debating point for me. Sadly, Its just the ways things are around here anyway....

    So as for them being baseless. No, thyere not, unless Im being lied to by my Dads doctors and registrars.
    Offensive? They were offensive, for not asking us, if we wanted immigration at those levels.
    Pathetic? Really. Wait till you're beloved family members are dying horribly and its all up to you to deal with.

    [Yes I roamed Off topic] Its just on my mind.
    We spend SIGNIFICANTLY less per person on healthcare than just about any other developed Western country. The US spend over 2x as much per person. Has it never occurred to you that maybe our healthcare is **** because we don't fund it? It has nothing to do with immigration. Immigrants bring in huge amounts of money (which we don't invest into the NHS, because AUSTERITY) and they make up such a huge proportion of NHS staff that it literally couldn't run without them and it'd take decades to replace them.
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    Yes, his life support should be turned off.
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    I think his parents are just fixated too much on the present. It comes down to the mathematics of survival. Although it's tragic what's happened to this child, they should accept it as a loss, mourn, and then move on. If they keep him alive they're giving so much time to it they're unlikely to have more kids, and definitely not a normal family. They should just let him pass, so they can then move on, have more kids and have a happy family.

    As a side note, I think there should be a system when it comes to turning off life support similar to the notion of a firing squad. 5 people flick a switch with no-one knowing which is connected to the machine so no-one knows who actually "killed" him.
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    (Original post by AppleB)
    Yes, his life support should be turned off.
    It is time to see how is body will deal with this.

    Turn it off and let's see how things go from that point.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    We spend SIGNIFICANTLY less per person on healthcare than just about any other developed Western country. The US spend over 2x as much per person. Has it never occurred to you that maybe our healthcare is **** because we don't fund it? It has nothing to do with immigration. Immigrants bring in huge amounts of money (which we don't invest into the NHS, because AUSTERITY) and they make up such a huge proportion of NHS staff that it literally couldn't run without them and it'd take decades to replace them.
    Well thats interesting. Didnt know that. [That we spend significantly less] Believe me Im all for funding it more.
    I want the best treatment for everyone. Thats all.

    [And I have every reason to knock New Labour, who were just Tories by any other name, IMO. Or Worse. The *******s policies certainly kicked me in the teeth repeatedly, felt like they had a personal vendetta, they were so terrible and I tend to be slightly blinkered possibly, as I see everything after that as fallout of their reign. I've also had people who work for the NHS, senior people agreeing, actually quite angry, specifically on the destructive nature of Browns misuse of PFI for general public sector projects and specifically the NHS. I want this piecemeal privatisation of the NHS to STOP!]

    As you are the OP, and you have responded I feel its ok, to take it slightly off topic, and ask, what do you think of one of the biggest critics of the present NHS, Dr Vernon Coleman? [Can I ask, do you work for the NHS?] Thanks.
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    I don't know enough about the case but the parents mentioned they wouldn't go through with this if they knew it would increase his suffering (or something along the lines of that). So I'm confused.
 
 
 
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