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What do we do when someone's raped but there's no evidence? Watch

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    Liking the discussion going on here!
    I think maybe I should re-word my question about changing the justice system to avoid cases like the one in the show, and perhaps ask a more fundamental question as well.
    I'm assuming you all agree that a perfect system would convict all guilty criminals and convict no innocent people. Because our justice system does in fact convict some innocent people & fails to convict many guilty people (though it does the latter much more than the former) this means it's not perfect in an ideal sense. Is this because the perfect system is impossible? In which case why should we presume innocence instead of presume the accuser is telling the truth (i'm talking about all crimes, not just rape). Why is convicting innocent people worse than failing to convict guilty people?
    If maybe, you want to air on the other side (or maybe try and not make any assumption though I know that's very hard) then how do we change the system?
    If in fact the "perfect system" is possible then how do we change our current one?
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    (Original post by mrsuperguy)
    Liking the discussion going on here!
    I think maybe I should re-word my question about changing the justice system to avoid cases like the one in the show, and perhaps ask a more fundamental question as well.
    I'm assuming you all agree that a perfect system would convict all guilty criminals and convict no innocent people. Because our justice system does in fact convict some innocent people & fails to convict many guilty people (though it does the latter much more than the former) this means it's not perfect in an ideal sense. Is this because the perfect system is impossible? In which case why should we presume innocence instead of presume the accuser is telling the truth (i'm talking about all crimes, not just rape). Why is convicting innocent people worse than failing to convict guilty people?
    If maybe, you want to air on the other side (or maybe try and not make any assumption though I know that's very hard) then how do we change the system?
    If in fact the "perfect system" is possible then how do we change our current one?
    I agree with what you define to be the perfect system. I don't think it is possible, at least not with lawyers. Lawyers expose the flaws in our justice system - they'll appeal to emotion, they'll work harder than other lawyers to present a better case, they'll manipulate the jurors' opinions of the accused/accuser. None of these would exist in a perfect system which relied on facts. Humans are flawed in their reasoning even with perfect evidence, what happens with imperfect evidence and lawyers suggesting what fills the gaps?

    Convicting an innocent is far far worse than getting away with a crime. Imagine if you could be innocently going about your life when one day some cops jump you, haul you to trial and you get 15 years for killing someone who was mugged near your house last night. Everyone lives in fear for themselves that this is an acceptable outcome for the justice system, everyone lives in fear for themselves that the real criminals are quite possibly still out there even if there is a conviction, and you've been kidnapped, imprisoned and defamed by the very system that's supposed to stop this sort of thing. The alternative is the cops get the right person but can't collect enough evidence to convict and the murderer is let loose with a note put on their file. This isn't great but it's at least a bit better than no justice system or a justice system that simply failed to find the culprit and gave up.

    There's also the principle that a system set up to deliver justice should not actively deliver injustice. And also there's no way you should be putting someone in prison for 10 years based on one person's say so - some people are malicious, some people are greedy (so blackmail) and we shouldn't open up such a gaping hole for them to exploit.
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    (Original post by ThomH97)
    I agree with what you define to be the perfect system. I don't think it is possible, at least not with lawyers. Lawyers expose the flaws in our justice system - they'll appeal to emotion, they'll work harder than other lawyers to present a better case, they'll manipulate the jurors' opinions of the accused/accuser. None of these would exist in a perfect system which relied on facts. Humans are flawed in their reasoning even with perfect evidence, what happens with imperfect evidence and lawyers suggesting what fills the gaps?

    Convicting an innocent is far far worse than getting away with a crime. Imagine if you could be innocently going about your life when one day some cops jump you, haul you to trial and you get 15 years for killing someone who was mugged near your house last night. Everyone lives in fear for themselves that this is an acceptable outcome for the justice system, everyone lives in fear for themselves that the real criminals are quite possibly still out there even if there is a conviction, and you've been kidnapped, imprisoned and defamed by the very system that's supposed to stop this sort of thing. The alternative is the cops get the right person but can't collect enough evidence to convict and the murderer is let loose with a note put on their file. This isn't great but it's at least a bit better than no justice system or a justice system that simply failed to find the culprit and gave up.

    There's also the principle that a system set up to deliver justice should not actively deliver injustice. And also there's no way you should be putting someone in prison for 10 years based on one person's say so - some people are malicious, some people are greedy (so blackmail) and we shouldn't open up such a gaping hole for them to exploit.
    What about the fear of being attacked, losing everything and not getting any justice for what happened due to lack of evidence...? I'm saying I don't know which would be worse.
    And also, that comment about lawyers I actually agree with. In my "perfect justice system" I imagine a judge & a jury hearing evidence collected by an entirely impartial 3rd party where no one who can affect the verdict has a vested interest in its outcome.
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    (Original post by mrsuperguy)
    What about the fear of being attacked, losing everything and not getting any justice for what happened due to lack of evidence...? I'm saying I don't know which would be worse.
    And also, that comment about lawyers I actually agree with. In my "perfect justice system" I imagine a judge & a jury hearing evidence collected by an entirely impartial 3rd party where no one who can affect the verdict has a vested interest in its outcome.
    What good does it do me (or anyone) if the wrong person is locked up? The criminal is actually even more protected because that means the cops have stopped looking for evidence. We have to accept that there are shortcomings in our legal system because nothing can be perfect, but I'd far rather our system strove to be perfect than settle for "Well, it's possible they did it and we've got someone in prison so job done". You need to get the right person, if not out of morality and principles then at least out of practicality.
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    • She isn't going to get justice. She should focus on moving on with her life and learning how to get over what happened to her and practice acceptance.
    • It shouldn't change. We have innocent until proven guilty for a reason and you can't change it just because one particularly upsetting crime is tough to prosecute.
    • Clearly a terrible idea. Aside from the fact she is slandering someone's reputation with no proof she is also not helping her own mental health by hanging onto what happened.
    • I think we all are.
 
 
 
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