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Why are people on TSR snobby about Redbricks Unis? Watch

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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    No one cares, whether you can or can't is a minor irrelevancy compared the main point of the thread. Don't go off on tangents in an attempt deviate from the point, which is that a lot of people on TSR unfairly disregard Redbricks and display worrying levels of praise towards the so-called 'top 10', when in reality most Redbricks are just as good as most of those - it's just that newspapers have influenced you into thinking otherwise.
    you sound like the snob
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    (Original post by Vikingninja)
    It's a minority on here not "everyone".
    Fair enough, you're probably right. Tbh I'm not a regular TSR user so I wouldn't know. But it seems like that when reading the 'what are the top 10 UK uni' threads - people always mention the exact same universities - never any of the Redbricks, except occasionally Bristol and sometimes Nottingham - and it goes uncontested, as though it's a fact.

    I find it confusing, personally I was always under the impression that the Redbricks were generally considered the next best thing after Oxbridge/Imperial, in the broad scheme of higher education anyway, as multi-faculty institutions rather than for specific subjects... before discovering TSR.

    Unfortunately TSR does has a reputation of being snobby and elitist. There are other online forums which scathingly hate this place.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Because TSR has an overwhelmingly high focus on career sectors that traditionally recruit from these universities - all the wannabe bankers, lawyers, consultants etc gravitate to this site.

    But mostly, it has to do with popularity. The universities you've named are "in fashion" and are seen as selective/prestigious because everyone with solid grades wants to apply to them which in turn creates even more competition. Similarly, TSR tends to skew middle to upper middle class private/grammar educated - looking at the destinations of those from said backgrounds, you'd come to realise that they congregate in the same "familiar" unis. These are where their older friends had applied to and where there's a history of people from their schools going to.

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    What I find confusing is that there were still loads of upper-middle class kids where I went to (and it wasn't Bristol) - half of everyone I met seemed to be affluent/rich and grammar/private school-educated (quite a lot were even public school educated). Most people weren't stereotypically 'posh' (some were), but it was still overwhelmingly 'new money' middle/upper class.

    I didn't come across many wannabe bankers though. I guess the fact TSR is full of these sorts of people makes it even more biased and less of a reliable source (since that's just one career path, that not even most affluent kids are necessarily interested in). But still, I'm very surprised it isn't one of the universities "in fashion" among places like TSR.
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    tldr but I feel there's too much emphasis on Redbrick unis. I feel some unis that aren't Redbrick should be (I don't know the requirements though) and vice versa.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    Fair enough, you're probably right. Tbh I'm not a regular TSR user so I wouldn't know. But it seems like that when reading the 'what are the top 10 UK uni' threads - people always mention the exact same universities - never any of the Redbricks, except occasionally Bristol and sometimes Nottingham - and it goes uncontested, as though it's a fact.

    I find it confusing, personally I was always under the impression that the Redbricks were generally considered the next best thing after Oxbridge/Imperial, in the broad scheme of higher education anyway, as multi-faculty institutions rather than for specific subjects... before discovering TSR.

    Unfortunately TSR does has a reputation of being snobby and elitist. There are other online forums which scathingly hate this place.
    well what do you regard as the top 10 universities then?

    Just cause a red brick university isn't regarded as a top 10 university by TSR, does not mean it's not a good university, it just means TSR doesn't deem it to be a top 10 university. It's not like being a good university means top 10 only. I agree that TSR can be elitist at times, but TSR also worships RG universities and all red-brick universities are RGs so don't get too hanged up over it.

    It's only the really elitist TSR folk who think Top 10 uni or nothing. But there would also be some folk who think Oxbridge or nothing and obviously that's wrong so just ignore them.

    P.S. 420 UCAS points is not A*A*A*. Don't forget that AS also gives you UCAS points so 420 UCAS points is more like ABBbb. 480 UCAS points is the equivalent of AAAaa hence why TSR is obsessed with 480+ UCAS points universities.
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    (Original post by ffspr0pect)
    well what do you regard as the top 10 universities then?
    I'd say Oxbridge and the top London ones are in the top 4. After that there's about 15-20 universities which I'd say are roughly equal but excel in different areas (including all the Redbricks).

    But for some reason TSR has an obsession with limiting this number to exactly 10. What's so significant about 10?
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    Numbers is the first thing I can think of, the minority of students go to these universities meaning the majority of student votes them down out of spite; they could be motivated by envy, desire, and experience.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    I'd say Oxbridge and the top London ones are in the top 4. After that there's about 15-20 universities which I'd say are roughly equal but excel in different areas (including all the Redbricks).

    But for some reason TSR has an obsession with limiting this number to exactly 10. What's so significant about 10?
    I imagine it's just because top 10 sounds better and it's more conventional in society to do lists in 10.

    But even among TSR, the top 10 universities which are frequently named (Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL/St Andrews/Durham/Warwick/Edinburgh/Bristol/King's etc.) - it's not a definitive top 10 and people may name one university to be in a top 10 and another would disagree. It's all just opinions and there's not much which can be done to control the opinion of others. It's unlikely that the opinion of strangers on the internet will ever have an actual impact on your life, so as long as you're happy at your university, just ignore them
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    What I find confusing is that there were still loads of upper-middle class kids where I went to (and it wasn't Bristol) - half of everyone I met seemed to be affluent/rich and grammar/private school-educated (quite a lot were even public school educated). Most people weren't stereotypically 'posh' though (some were), but it was still overwhelmingly 'new money' middle/upper class.

    I didn't come across many wannabe bankers though. I guess the fact TSR is full of these sorts of people makes it even more biased and less of a reliable source (since that's just one career path, that not even most affluent kids are necessarily interested in). But still, I'm very surprised it isn't one of the universities "in fashion" among places like TSR.
    Yeah, because most decent universities tend to skew middle class to upper middle class. But there are no doubt more of these sorts at the universities you've pointed out.

    Check this list out: https://thetab.com/uk/2017/02/03/fin...e-school-31904

    That's just private, if you include grammar there's even more of a difference.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    I like your smug faces

    The bottom line on TSR is this mentality: Victorian Redbricks have lots of beautiful architecture and global recognition - but none of that matters. 60s universities have basic buildings, are in small towns with not much going on, are relatively unheard of outside the UK, their reputation is influenced by newspapers more than anything else - but none of that matters.
    Thank you.

    Well, the judgement of teenagers is not one to be taken seriously. It's a scientific fact.

    "The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed and won't be until age 25 or so. In fact, recent research has found that adult and teen brains work differently. Adults think with the prefrontal cortex, the brain's rational part." - quoted it from a university website for an explanation via google
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    (Original post by ffspr0pect)
    I imagine it's just because top 10 sounds better and it's more conventional in society to do lists in 10.
    But it's just a number. It doesn't mean anything.

    (Original post by ffspr0pect)
    But even among TSR, the top 10 universities which are frequently named (Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial/UCL/St Andrews/Durham/Warwick/Edinburgh/Bristol/King's etc.) - it's not a definitive top 10 and people may name one university to be in a top 10 and another would disagree. It's all just opinions and there's not much which can be done to control the opinion of others. It's unlikely that the opinion of strangers on the internet will ever have an actual impact on your life, so as long as you're happy at your university, just ignore them
    I accept Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial as being in a class of their own, since they are genuinely hard to get into. I just find it fascinating how those underlined consistently get mentioned, as though it's a given that they're also in another separate golden tier of their own. I was never informed about this when I was in 6th form. Have I made a mistake not applying to go to those? Whereas the Redbricks (except Bristol) don't get as much mention. What is this even based on?

    The pattern I'm noticing is that 'good' universities in Northern England and the West Midlands are slightly less favoured for some reason (except for the ones in small touristy towns).

    I know it doesn't impact my life, but a lot of people read this site and I wouldn't be surprised if many come away with confusion or even bruised self-esteem, after finding out that their uni which required AAA and a lot of hard work to get into apparently isn't regarded as a 'top' uni like those. It's bad misinformation.
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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Yeah, because most decent universities tend to skew middle class to upper middle class. But there are no doubt more of these sorts at the universities you've pointed out.

    Check this list out: https://thetab.com/uk/2017/02/03/fin...e-school-31904

    That's just private, if you include grammar there's even more of a difference.
    My uni is actually lower than what I'd imagine it would be, based on my personal experience. But it has a big undergraduate population so that's still an awful lot of people.

    I wouldn't say the majority of people I met were privately educated, but I didn't meet that many people who seemed to be from ordinary comprehensives either. I'm guessing a substantial majority of non-private school kids either went to grammars or 'top' state schools/Catholic schools. People like me who didn't go to particularly good schools were definitely in the minority.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    My uni is actually lower than what I'd imagine it would be, based on my personal experience. But it has a big undergraduate population so that's still an awful lot of people.

    I wouldn't say the majority of people I met were privately educated, but I didn't meet that many people who seemed to be from ordinary comprehensives either. I'm guessing a substantial majority of non-private school kids either went to grammars or 'top' state schools/Catholic schools. People like me who didn't go to particularly good schools were definitely in the minority.
    This is the same at mine, about 20 percent are private schooled but when you include the grammar schools/top 10 percent of comprehensives it must be closer to 50 percent went to "posh" schools.
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    Why are people on TSR snobby full stop.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    I always thought the original 6 Redbrick Universities were usually considered to be respectable institutions for people who are high achieving, and/or for people who didn't get into Oxbridge. I always perceived them as being big brand names in academia, having existed as universities for a long time and having lots of history attached to them. They also tend to do excellently in Global League Tables - which, although might not be perfect measures of 'academic excellence', they do tend to rate universities which people have 'heard about' very highly. I know that doesn't indicate 'reputation', but I would've thought this is a good securer of long-term reputation because at least they remain globally recognised, as opposed to certain universities which go through phases where they suddenly shoot up the UK rankings and become the 'next best alternative to Oxbridge', but don't necessarily stay that way.

    I went to one of these original civic Redbricks, most people I met there were clever/well educated, an awful lot seemed to had come from grammar/private schools, and quite a lot were Oxbridge rejects. The student body was almost exclusively middle-class/new money. In other words, I gathered it was a pretty sought-after institution, and I'm very proud to have gone there, considering I went to an ordinary comp and had personal problems which affected my studies.

    So why does TSR tend to put these universities down, and put so much more emphasis on UCL/Durham/St Andrews, and even 60s universities like Warwick/Bath/Exeter/York? Is it partly because of the fact that (Bristol aside) they're in big cities which are often perceived as being 'rough', whereas the others are in nice touristy towns? How does location infer 'academic reputation'?
    I also went to a Redbrick ( I didn't know redbrick was a thing till this post lol) and while there were a lot of people from private schools, they totally changed my preconception of people in private schools, coming from an area where there aren't any. It was an excellent uni and I am proud to be a member and I have a strong affinity towards it.
    My personal (biased) opinion is people at the redbrick unis are out having fun, not spending their time on TSR... they have the balance between hard work and fun down

    anyway, global reputation is actually what matters - employers aren't going to go into the nitty gritty semantics of which uni technically is better (in whatever sense you are using "better")... it's too hard to judge. reputation goes a long way, as does age..

    but also... our unis are just better, soz
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    (Original post by NobleLeather)
    You can't, actions indicate cleverness like inventing the wheel, making huge profits off investments or nailing an attractive female Your impression of someone talking to you isn't. See, this is why some clever people are snobs about the students who went to the universities you mentioned.
    you can't tell if someone is clever by talking to them? it's pretty easy to gague... maybe you aren't that great at reading people.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    But it's just a number. It doesn't mean anything.

    I accept Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial as being in a class of their own, since they are genuinely hard to get into. I just find it fascinating how those underlined consistently get mentioned, as though it's a given that they're also in another separate golden tier of their own. I was never informed about this when I was in 6th form. Have I made a mistake not applying to go to those? Whereas the Redbricks (except Bristol) don't get as much mention. What is this even based on?

    The pattern I'm noticing is that 'good' universities in Northern England and the West Midlands are slightly less favoured for some reason (except for the ones in small touristy towns).

    I know it doesn't impact my life, but a lot of people read this site and I wouldn't be surprised if many come away with confusion or even bruised self-esteem, after finding out that their uni which required AAA and a lot of hard work to get into apparently isn't regarded as a 'top' uni like those. It's bad misinformation.
    Exactly, it's just an arbitrary number - so why are you so worked up over it?

    Well, what's to say that those other universities aren't hard to get into? Those other universities have (relatively) low offer rates and typically have 480+ UCAS points students. I mean, when I applied for my uni choices, our university counselor did tell us about certain universities we should be considering/aiming for alongside Oxbridge so maybe it's just your school. No, you have not made a mistake by applying to those universities - as I said before, do not let random folk on TSR bring you down (it's also not healthy to have your self-worth linked so tightly to the university you attend).

    It's based on a myriad of factors probably: selectivity (as I mentioned above), high proportion of privately educated students (as someone above me linked), history (most of the top 10 named by TSR were universities in the early 1900s), league tables, targeted by elite professions/employers, noteworthy alumni etc.

    Why would they feel bruised about their university not being named in the top 10 universities though? It's the opinion of strangers and doesn't mean much. You also assume that those attending redbrick universities expect their university to be named in the top 10 universities in the UK. As you yourself stated, there's probably not much in between those named in the top 10 and what you perceive to be the top 20/25 universities so just chill.
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    (Original post by ffspr0pect)
    Exactly, it's just an arbitrary number - so why are you so worked up over it?

    Well, what's to say that those other universities aren't hard to get into? Those other universities have (relatively) low offer rates and typically have 480+ UCAS points students. I mean, when I applied for my uni choices, our university counselor did tell us about certain universities we should be considering/aiming for alongside Oxbridge so maybe it's just your school. No, you have not made a mistake by applying to those universities - as I said before, do not let random folk on TSR bring you down (it's also not healthy to have your self-worth linked so tightly to the university you attend).
    It's not just random folk on TSR. Unfortunately I've met people who go/went to some of those institutions where the entry tariff is 480+ UCAS points. They genuinely think going to one of those places somehow means they're smarter, and that they're going to have more successful futures than people who go to places where it's 420-430. This is despite the fact that (1) they don't have anywhere near that entry tariff themselves, and (2) the entry requirements at those places are exactly the same as places where the entry tariff is a bit less (which means they're equally difficult to get into).

    (Original post by ffspr0pect)
    It's based on a myriad of factors probably: selectivity (as I mentioned above), high proportion of privately educated students (as someone above me linked), history (most of the top 10 named by TSR were universities in the early 1900s), league tables, targeted by elite professions/employers, noteworthy alumni etc.
    All those things equally apply to Redbricks, apart from the fact they're not target universities for investment banking, which honestly this place seems to make out is the only career path worth pursuing.

    Additionally, I don't see how going to a target university for one specific competitive career path translates into making you more likely to get a top job in other competitive career paths. I swear a lot of people on here think it unquestionably does, but they never have any convincing evidence or substance to support this when making such claims.
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    (Original post by MaskOfKeaton)
    I always thought the original 6 Redbrick Universities were usually considered to be respectable institutions for people who are high achieving, and/or for people who didn't get into Oxbridge. I always perceived them as being big brand names in academia, having existed as universities for a long time and having lots of history attached to them. They also tend to do excellently in Global League Tables - which, although might not be perfect measures of 'academic excellence', they do tend to rate universities which people have 'heard about' very highly. I know that doesn't indicate 'reputation', but I would've thought this is a good securer of long-term reputation because at least they remain globally recognised, as opposed to certain universities which go through phases where they suddenly shoot up the UK rankings and become the 'next best alternative to Oxbridge', but don't necessarily stay that way.

    I went to one of these original civic Redbricks, most people I met there were clever/well educated, an awful lot seemed to had come from grammar/private schools, and quite a lot were Oxbridge rejects. The student body was almost exclusively middle-class/new money. In other words, I gathered it was a pretty sought-after institution, and I'm very proud to have gone there, considering I went to an ordinary comp and had personal problems which affected my studies.

    So why does TSR tend to put these universities down, and put so much more emphasis on UCL/Durham/St Andrews, and even 60s universities like Warwick/Bath/Exeter/York? Is it partly because of the fact that (Bristol aside) they're in big cities which are often perceived as being 'rough', whereas the others are in nice touristy towns? How does location infer 'academic reputation'?
    I think that by you saying the original 6 redbrick unis don't deserve any sort of criticism/mockery as all other unis do is in itself snobbery dont you think?

    UCL, Warwick, Bath etc etc have in many ways overtaken the red bricks in some aspects. No one goes to oxbridge purely from their history, they remain as the best institutions for education today whereas the redbricks like Leeds have somewhat lost their edge.
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    (Original post by kane21)
    I think that by you saying the original 6 redbrick unis don't deserve any sort of criticism/mockery as all other unis do is in itself snobbery dont you think?
    I'm not saying they don't deserve any sort of criticism, I just don't understand why they are relatively under-praised on TSR compared to certain universities that have equal entry requirements.

    (Original post by kane21)
    UCL, Warwick, Bath etc etc have in many ways overtaken the red bricks in some aspects. No one goes to oxbridge purely from their history, they remain as the best institutions for education today whereas the redbricks like Leeds have somewhat lost their edge.
    Redbricks like Leeds have somewhat lost their edge (on TSR) because they're never in the 'Top 10' of League Tables, which is far more superficial than a university's history/recognition. Historically they've always been seen as great universities, but today's school leavers (again, on TSR) don't regard them as being among 'the best' because they're not used to seeing them right at the top of league tables. If Leeds was persistently in the Top 10 (and it may well be in the future, things do change and it's been sneaking up recent rankings) then attitudes towards it would be different.

    I also find it weird how domestic reputation seems to be more valued on TSR than international reputation. I would've thought the latter gives a university more of an edge but whatever.
 
 
 
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