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What is the best hothatch car Watch

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    Okay so am looking at these cars and I wanted to know which one is the best.
    Audi s3 2013
    Vw golf R 2015
    Vw gti 2016
    Bmw m135i
    Bmw m235i
    Amg a45
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    A45
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    Houses for courses, why not drive them and see which once you like best?

    Personally I'd say either the S3 (only if it's manual) or one of the BMWs.
    Dont like the Golfs, especially the R - too chavy nowadays and although I've never driven the A45 the current A class is cheap inside for it's cost and not very nice to drive compared to the 1 series or the Audi A3.

    I also really dislike the DSG box in the VW/Audi, yes they're faster but they take away from the driving experience and are jerky and cumbersome at low speed. Imho either a slush box (8speed zf in some of the BMWs is lovely) and bumble about or a manual and actually drive the thing.

    But as always you pays your money and makes your choice.
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    I don't see why you're making comparision between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive cars, a driver who chooses sports car should be quite determined for a particular kind of transmission, otherwise it doesn't make sense to buy a sports car, when you don't have preferences determined by high skills and driving style.

    Besides, there are many cars avaible at similar prices, that are probably better. To name, Civic Type R, 4WD Forcus RS, and Subaru WRX STI.

    (Original post by virgil1)
    I also really dislike the DSG box in the VW/Audi, yes they're faster but they take away from the driving experience and are jerky and cumbersome at low speed. Imho either a slush box (8speed zf in some of the BMWs is lovely) and bumble about or a manual and actually drive the thing.
    And it's not reliable either.
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    (Original post by virgil1)
    Houses for courses, why not drive them and see which once you like best?
    Not great steering feel, but they do stop well.
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    Nothing even remotely British.

    Anything even remotely German.
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    (Original post by driverboy133)
    Okay so am looking at these cars and I wanted to know which one is the best.
    Audi s3 2013
    Vw golf R 2015
    Vw gti 2016
    Bmw m135i
    Bmw m235i
    Amg a45
    M235i is a coupe, not a hatch. And the M135i has been changed to the M140i (you can only buy the 135 used).

    If you want luxury, I would get the S3 or possibly the M135i. The A45 AMG is also good but it's very expensive, and at that price you might as well get the Audi RS3 (395hp, 2.5l straight-five - amazing engine!).

    For performance-for-the-pound, get either the Golf R or M135i. They're probably the best value. If you care more about handling than power, get the GTI. All your options have 280 horsepower + apart from the GTI.

    Also consider if you need all-wheel-drive. If you do, I'd get the S3 or maybe Golf R. Alternatively, if you want rear-wheel-drive only the M135i is the one to get.

    If you care about fuel economy, look up real-life MPG. Pretty sure the GTI will be the most efficient and the M135i the least since it's got a 3-litre straight six. But then you get the sound...

    Just a thought - have you considered a Ford Focus RS or Subaru WRX hatchback?
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    M235i is a coupe, not a hatch. And the M135i has been changed to the M140i (you can only buy the 135 used).

    If you want luxury, I would get the S3 or possibly the M135i. The A45 AMG is also good but it's very expensive, and at that price you might as well get the Audi RS3 (395hp, 2.5l straight-five - amazing engine!).

    For performance-for-the-pound, get either the Golf R or M135i. They're probably the best value. If you care more about handling than power, get the GTI. All your options have 280 horsepower + apart from the GTI.

    Also consider if you need all-wheel-drive. If you do, I'd get the S3 or maybe Golf R. Alternatively, if you want rear-wheel-drive only the M135i is the one to get.

    If you care about fuel economy, look up real-life MPG. Pretty sure the GTI will be the most efficient and the M135i the least since it's got a 3-litre straight six. But then you get the sound...

    Just a thought - have you considered a Ford Focus RS or Subaru WRX hatchback?
    The Mx40i's have a new engine compared to the Mx35i and can actually be fairly economical considering the crazy amount of power they have.
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    The Mx40i's have a new engine compared to the Mx35i and can actually be fairly economical considering the crazy amount of power they have.
    Both are 3-litre straight-sixes I think. The 40 is definitely turbocharged - can't remember if the 35 is.
    In my opinion, the really impressive BMW engines are the diesel straight-sixes - specifically the x30d, x35d and x50d (sometimes Mx50d) which have one, two and three (soon to be four!) turbos respectively. Real-life fuel economy on a 335d or 435d is over 35mpg - amazing for something with over 300 horsepower.
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    Both are 3-litre straight-sixes I think. The 40 is definitely turbocharged - can't remember if the 35 is.
    In my opinion, the really impressive BMW engines are the diesel straight-sixes - specifically the x30d, x35d and x50d (sometimes Mx50d) which have one, two and three (soon to be four!) turbos respectively. Real-life fuel economy on a 335d or 435d is over 35mpg - amazing for something with over 300 horsepower.
    correct, they're both 3.0 straight sixes, however the B58 engine (in the Mx40is) is improved over the N55 (in the Mx35i) in that it offers more BHP, a quite sizeable increase in torque and yet it is a few mpg more fuel efficient.

    Admittedly i can't tell you first hand (yet.. I pick my M140i up next week ) but i've read and heard that its not that hard to get mid 30s or even low 40s on motorway drives which considering, like i said, the power which these little cars have thats really rather good.

    Anyway if you're buying a hot hatch who cares so much about fuel efficiency anyway?!
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    correct, they're both 3.0 straight sixes, however the B58 engine (in the Mx40is) is significantly improved over the N55 (in the Mx35i) in that it offers more BHP, a quite sizeable increase in torque and yet it is a few mpg more fuel efficient.

    Admittedly i can't tell you first hand (yet.. I pick my M140i up next week ) but i've read and heard that its not that hard to get mid 30s or even low 40s on motorway drives which considering, like i said, the power which these little cars have thats really rather good.

    Anyway if you're buying a hot hatch who cares so much about fuel efficiency anyway?!
    I hope you enjoy your car. It's great to see BMW producing a RWD 6-cylinder hatch in an era where everyone else is making 4-cylinder AWD cars.
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    I hope you enjoy your car. It's great to see BMW producing a RWD 6-cylinder hatch in an era where everyone else is making 4-cylinder AWD cars.
    Cheers mate.

    Not for long, supposedly. The next 1 series (next year?) is gonna be FWD and rumours are that they'll stop giving the M lite cars (140 and 240s) 6cyl engines.

    Thats partly why I've gone for one now.. i feel its almost now or never! The next gen M140i may well be an AWD 4cyl and at least imo they're just not the same. Take the new 4cyl porsche 718s over their predecessors, for example.
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    Cheers mate.

    Not for long, supposedly. The next 1 series is gonna be FWD and rumours are that they'll stop giving the M lite cars (140 and 240s) 6cyl engines.

    Thats partly why I've gone for one now.. i feel its almost now or never! The next gen M140i may well be an AWD 4cyl and at least imo they're just not the same. Take the new 4cyl porsche 718s over their predecessors, for example.
    I heard. They're killing the car's USP. But apparently a study of 1-series owners found that more than half weren't even aware it was rear-wheel-drive (don't know if this is true - I really hope not).

    On the plus side, your M140i will probably hold onto its value better.
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    I heard. They're killing the car's USP. But apparently a study of 1-series owners found that more than half weren't even aware it was rear-wheel-drive (don't know if this is true - I really hope not).

    On the plus side, your M140i will probably hold onto its value better.
    jesus, if thats true :lol:

    I guess a lot of 1 series sales will be the entry level diesels (the 116d is it) so maybe they're not as car savvy but that seems a very high %!!

    exactly- don't get me wrong, I'm gonna lose money (its a mass produced relatively low value car) but it should hopefully depreciate a little less than the alternatives given it is literally a dying breed of car.

    The power that some companies are getting out of smaller engines now its only a matter of time before the bigger engines all but disappear. Taxes will see to that too!
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    jesus, if thats true :lol:

    I guess a lot of 1 series sales will be the entry level diesels (the 116d is it) so maybe they're not as car savvy but that seems a very high %!!

    exactly- don't get me wrong, I'm gonna lose money (its a mass produced relatively low value car) but it should hopefully depreciate a little less than the alternatives given it is literally a dying breed of car.

    The power that some companies are getting out of smaller engines now its only a matter of time before the bigger engines all but disappear. Taxes will see to that too!
    I think the move to tiny engines is mostly caused by the flawed emissions tests. Under the very light load of an emissions test they use very little fuel, but under high load they often run a very rich fuel ratio to prevent overheating (sounds counterintuitive but rich means a cooler flame). So AMG getting 385hp from 2 litres (or >700hp from 1.6 in the case of the Project One) will get poor real-life economy - I'd predict worse than your M140i.
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    I think the move to tiny engines is mostly caused by the flawed emissions tests. Under the very light load of an emissions test they use very little fuel, but under high load they often run a very rich fuel ratio to prevent overheating (sounds counterintuitive but rich means a cooler flame). So AMG getting 385hp from 2 litres (or >700hp from 1.6 in the case of the Project One) will get poor real-life economy - I'd predict worse than your M140i.
    Ah, didn't know that.

    www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg seems to agree with you, its suggesting 27.2 real mpg average for the A45 and 33.8 for the M140i.

    Interestingly the official figures have the A45 at 40.9 and the BMW at 39.8.. further proves your point!

    I know before I said that who cares about fuel efficiency.. but clearly 6mpg more over the life of a car is a significant amount of money. I meant it wouldn't be the first thing you care about!
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    Ah, didn't know that.

    www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg seems to agree with you, its suggesting 27.2 real mpg average for the A45 and 33.8 for the M140i.

    Interestingly the official figures have the A45 at 40.9 and the BMW at 39.8.. further proves your point!

    I know before I said that who cares about fuel efficiency.. but clearly 6mpg more over the life of a car is a significant amount of money. I meant it wouldn't be the first thing you care about!
    I agree that fuel economy isn't a big deal for performance cars, but this just shows how much the fuel economy tests need to change! They're leading to manufacturers making cars built to do well in the test rather than in real life.
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    I agree that fuel economy isn't a big deal for performance cars, but this just shows how much the fuel economy tests need to change! They're leading to manufacturers making cars built to do well in the test rather than in real life.
    oh yeah they're an absolute sham and highly misleading to people who might not know better. Its crazy that manufacturers are allowed to advertise their car as doing x MPG- where this is the efficiency customers would get if they only drove in straight lines, on a flat surface inside lab conditions!

    I'm sure I've read that on average real world MPGs are 30-40% lower than the advertised ones.. its just silly
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    (Original post by stirkee)
    oh yeah they're an absolute sham and highly misleading to people who might not know better. Its crazy that manufacturers are allowed to advertise their car as doing x MPG- where this is the efficiency customers would get if they only drove in straight lines, on a flat surface inside lab conditions!

    I'm sure I've read that on average real world MPGs are 30-40% lower than the advertised ones.. its just silly
    Hybrids are the worst. BMW i8 claims 134.5mpg but real-life MPG tends to be in the 30-45 range. And nobody will ever get 90mpg out of a Porsche 918 Spyder...

    Seemingly one of the few manufacturers who aren't going with the trend are Mazda. I've heard their series of naturally-aspirated petrols and mildly-turbocharged diesels get very good real-world fuel economy despite being larger than the norm (for example 2.5L when the competitors use 2L).
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    (Original post by TheMindGarage)
    Hybrids are the worst. BMW i8 claims 134.5mpg but real-life MPG tends to be in the 30-45 range. And nobody will ever get 90mpg out of a Porsche 918 Spyder...

    Seemingly one of the few manufacturers who aren't going with the trend are Mazda. I've heard their series of naturally-aspirated petrols and mildly-turbocharged diesels get very good real-world fuel economy despite being larger than the norm (for example 2.5L when the competitors use 2L).
    Yeah I remember the i8 economy coming up on Top Gear, Clarkson managed about 30 in it iirc.

    I can speak first hand here as I've currently got a Mercedes C350e which has an advertised economy of 134.5 mpg (!!!!!) when i've averaged only 34 whilst owning! Admittedly though I rarely charge the battery.

    Even when driving it as gently as possible, in eco with the battery fully charged the highest i've ever seen for a single journey was low 50s, I think 50.8 or something.

    They also make for easy ways to get around the CO2 rules. The C350e has official emissions of 48g/km but given the electric motors are only good for about 20miles I can't imagine in reality it gets anywhere near there. Cheaper company car tax though.

    In general it seems that these manufacturers are making car which are better, cleaner etc on paper (i.e. better at getting around the emissions tests) but which offer very limited real world improvements.
 
 
 
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