What is the best hothatch car

Yeah I remember the i8 economy coming up on Top Gear, Clarkson managed about 30 in it iirc.

I can speak first hand here as I've currently got a Mercedes C350e which has an advertised economy of 134.5 mpg (!!!!!) when i've averaged only 34 whilst owning!

Even when driving it as gently as possible, in eco with the battery fully charged the highest i've ever seen for a single journey was low 50s, I think 50.8 or something.

They also make for easy ways to get around the CO2 rules. The C350e has official emissions of 48g/km but given the electric motors are only good for about 20miles I can't imagine in reality it gets anywhere near there. Cheaper company car tax though.

In general it seems that these manufacturers are making car which are better, cleaner etc on paper (i.e. better at getting around the emissions tests) but which offer very limited real world improvements.

if you want to have fun choose the BMW, if you want to be a boring snob get the audi or the golf R. Golf GTI is probably more fun than the R even though its slower.

I personally don't see the appeal of any of those cars except the 2 series. Hot hatches are not that great. I have a Fiesta ST, which according to everyone on the planet is supposed to be the best driving hot hatch in the world. But I find it boring just due to the height of the car, I'd suggest getting a low sports car rather than a tuned hatch. Unless you really need the practicality.

what low sports car would you suggest?

I might be biased as i'm getting one but i was absolute blown away by the M140i when I drove it, couldn't stop smiling. For the money the M lites are genuinely some of the best cars around I think, you can pick up pre-registered M140s for like £26k.

Okay it costs a lot more than a fiesta ST (to be fair, it is a class above) but not gonna lie I couldn't be in the fiesta for more than 30minutes because that interior is absolutely shocking, no offence

interior is old and cheap but that's what saves the price besides everything you actually touch feels good. Most importantly the seats are phenomenal and better than anything you'll find in any other hot hatch.

I used to drive an MX-5 despite the Fiesta being much more powerful and a lot quicker, the MX-5 was twenty times as fun. If you're looking at a brand new car then the MX-5 is the only one you can buy under £20K, if you have a budget of £30K then you have more options - for the same price as a Golf GTI you could get a Nissan 370Z, a Toyota GT86, maybe a Z4 even (not 100% sure what price they start at).

Rear wheel drive and low down position is miles more fun than any FWD and especially 4WD hatchback.

Exactly, which is why the M lites are so good!

In the Fiesta i feel you sit really high up, other hot hatches are far better in this regard.

As for the other options you suggested the only one I'd consider is the GT86 which supposedly is actually a pretty good car but the performance is no where near the hot hatches. But yeah, from what i've heard/seen/read it looks like good fun.

The 370z is also quite dated at this point, i.e. the interior. I don't really like the image you portray when driving one but I might be interested in a next gen version though as it'll probably be pretty good.

I wouldn't bother with the Z4, it competes against the TT which is far superior imo.

Not sure if there will even be a next Z (would be called Z35 internally) - it's at least 8 years old now. Same for the GT-R.

The GT86 is a good drivers' car but has poor straight-line performance. In a 0-60mph race, my dad's crossover (Seat Ateca, 190PS diesel) would tie with it.

I know it's a little old (can only be bought used), but what about the Honda S2000? It had the highest specific output of any naturally-aspirated engine (until the Ferrari 458 Speciale came along). It's basically a slightly larger, much quicker MX-5.

Exactly, which is why the M lites are so good!

In the Fiesta i feel you sit really high up, other hot hatches are far better in this regard.

As for the other options you suggested the only one I'd consider is the GT86 which supposedly is actually a pretty good car but the performance is no where near the hot hatches. But yeah, from what i've heard/seen/read it looks like good fun.

The 370z is also quite dated at this point, i.e. the interior. I don't really like the image you portray when driving one but I might be interested in a next gen version though as it'll probably be pretty good.

I wouldn't bother with the Z4, it competes against the TT which is far superior imo.

Believe me "performance" means jack ****. My ST is way faster than my old MX-5, 2 seconds quicker to 60 and feels even quicker than that. But it is so much less fun. Would also say the same about the GT86, haven't driven one myself but I would bet a lot of money that you'll have abigger smile on your face than in a Golf GTI or a fast 1 series.

And you talk about faster off the lights - when was the last time you actually tried to race someone in the streets? I've only ever raced anyone once, that was in my MX-5 against a Focus ST and I thrashed him just by having bigger balls I think. - his car had twice the horsepower of mine.

Also I'm not sure about the TT, it seems a very dull car to me. Haven't driven one but sat in several (my boss has a brand new one) and it seems very boring.

I don't think I'd have more fun in a GT86 than the M140i i'm picking up next week if i'm totally honest mate How much money we talking?

About the faster at the lights, rather than meaning it in the racing sense I just meant it would annoy me slightly to know that my "sports car" was slower than a lot of regular hatchbacks, estates, SUVs etc. And for the record I have actually had a few races with people recently anyway

Having driven a TT I wouldn't say its dull at all. It's not as fun as a RWD car, obviously (as you seem to agree), but its still a really good car. I've not driven a Z4 but I've heard it isn't great.

Okay so am looking at these cars and I wanted to know which one is the best.
Audi s3 2013
Vw golf R 2015
Vw gti 2016
Bmw m135i
Bmw m235i
Amg a45

oh didnt' realise youd bought it. Enjoy your car buddy i still say i'd put £1000 on you having more fun in the gt86 than in a m140i but regardless, hope you enjoy it

Ford Fiesta is better than all of those listed.

Ford Fiesta is better than all of those listed.

In terms of performance, definitely not. All the ones listed bar the GTI are pushing out 280 horsepower or more, and the A45 is at 381hp. And many of them have all-wheel-drive.

In terms of being "fun-to-drive", that's a subjective measure and different people will prefer different things.

What? Why? How?

How good a car is tends to be judged on the overall package as opposed to just its power. There's a reason the Fiesta commonly tops the charts in polls for best hot hatchbacks - because it's a ****ing great car.

You didn't answer the question(s) at all.