Why is it only labeled a hate crime if the perp is straight? Why not if he's gay? Watch

justme3991
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Just curious. This is a real situation concerning someone. I knew of a situation where a gay guy murdered a guy who was bisexual because of specifically his sexuality. They were involved and he didn't like this person's identity. Legally though he was not charged with a hate crime. It seems like it should be imo. Because isn't that the literal meaning of a hate crime in this case. Had the guy been straight he'd have clearly had been charged with a hate crime. Double standards?
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Wellzi
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Hate crime is a stupid concept. If I bash someones head in because I didn't like the way they talked to me, I should get the same punishment for someone who bashed someones head in because of their sexuality or race etc. Yes racism and homophobia isn't nice, but the real issue is that someone bashed someones head in; their motivation for doing it is pretty irrelevant
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Meany Pie
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(Original post by Wellzi)
Hate crime is a stupid concept. If I bash someones head in because I didn't like the way they talked to me, I should get the same punishment for someone who bashed someones head in because of their sexuality or race etc. Yes racism and homophobia isn't nice, but the real issue is that someone bashed someones head in; their motivation for doing it is pretty irrelevant
So someone who bashed someone's head in trying to defend themselves should be treated the same as someone who did it intentionally.

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Treeroy
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Hate crimes are not real. How on earth they have made it into actual law is terrifying.

It is not illegal to be racist; but if you kill someone for racist reasons you get a worse punishment than if you kill someone for non racist reasons. We live in a thought police state.
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Reality Check
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Perp? This isn't CSI: Miami.
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Meany Pie
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(Original post by Treeroy)
Hate crimes are not real. How on earth they have made it into actual law is terrifying.

It is not illegal to be racist; but if you kill someone for racist reasons you get a worse punishment than if you kill someone for non racist reasons. We live in a thought police state.
What is the actual punishment difference?
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I am a Stick
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(Original post by Treeroy)
Hate crimes are not real. How on earth they have made it into actual law is terrifying.

It is not illegal to be racist; but if you kill someone for racist reasons you get a worse punishment than if you kill someone for non racist reasons. We live in a thought police state.
Oh no, the poor murders getting more time in prison than they should!!
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Treeroy
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well murder or violence or anything else. doesn't really matter, it should not be a crime to hate someone.
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I am a Stick
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(Original post by Treeroy)
well murder or violence or anything else. doesn't really matter, it should not be a crime to hate someone.
It should not be a crime to murder people because it doesn't really matter?
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Treeroy)
Hate crimes are not real. How on earth they have made it into actual law is terrifying.

It is not illegal to be racist; but if you kill someone for racist reasons you get a worse punishment than if you kill someone for non racist reasons. We live in a thought police state.
If we lived in a thought police state, people would be arrested for being racist. Instead they are, quite reasonably, arrested for committing actual crimes.

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Treeroy
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
If we lived in a thought police state, people would be arrested for being racist. Instead they are, quite reasonably, arrested for committing actual crimes.

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but given a worse punishment if they are racist/homophobic etc. Being racist / homophobic should NOT be a crime !!
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Treeroy)
but given a worse punishment if they are racist/homophobic etc. Being racist / homophobic should NOT be a crime !!
Of course it should, in the sense of a hate crime. You're actively targeting people at that point.

Pure homophobia or racism has never been a crime, nor should it be, if it's kept to oneself, for instance.

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Meany Pie
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(Original post by Treeroy)
but given a worse punishment if they are racist/homophobic etc. Being racist / homophobic should NOT be a crime !!
What is the actual punishment difference?
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Wanderlust96
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
Of course it should. You're actively targeting people at that point.

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I disagree, I know people who are quietly racist. They're ignorant but they keep their views to themselves, so why should it be a crime? A *****y character trait yes, but a crime?
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Wanderlust96)
I disagree, I know people who are quietly racist. They're ignorant but they keep their views to themselves, so why should it be a crime? A *****y character trait yes, but a crime?
That's what I'm saying though, that racism in itself isn't a crime, nor should it be, as that's thought policing. But I don't see an issue with harsher punishments for actual crimes (murder, assault, etc) committed on the basis of the victims race.

I realise I misread the previous post I quoted, so have since rephrased my reply.

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Treeroy
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(Original post by Meany Pie)
What is the actual punishment difference?

Well as with any punishment it will depend on what the judge gives them, but there is some guidance notes to sentencing here:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...to-sentencing/

but generaly hate crimes will get significantly longer/harsher sentencing than a regular crime. its utterly ridiculous.
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Meany Pie
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(Original post by Treeroy)
Well as with any punishment it will depend on what the judge gives them, but there is some guidance notes to sentencing here:
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...to-sentencing/

but generaly hate crimes will get significantly longer/harsher sentencing than a regular crime. its utterly ridiculous.
How long is significant?
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Treeroy
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
That's what I'm saying though, that racism in itself isn't a crime, nor should it be, as that's thought policing. But I don't see an issue with harsher punishments for actual crimes (murder, assault, etc) committed on the basis of the victims race.

I realise I misread the previous post I quoted, so have since rephrased my reply.

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That is exactly the issue, that is thought policing. They haven't committed anything more illegal than anyone committing an identical crime for non hate reasons. They haven't done anything worse. it is ****ing stupid
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Treeroy)
That is exactly the issue, that is thought policing. They haven't committed anything more illegal than anyone committing an identical crime for non hate reasons. They haven't done anything worse. it is ****ing stupid
It's not thought policing though; they're not getting arrested for thinking something negative, they're being arrested for committing an actual crime, where their intent has been proven to be racist or homophobic. That's not thought policing, because it's no longer merely a thought about it.

It's also a more effective deterrent to others who may otherwise have committed a hate crime, given the harsher punishment.

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anarchism101
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(Original post by Wellzi)
Hate crime is a stupid concept. If I bash someones head in because I didn't like the way they talked to me, I should get the same punishment for someone who bashed someones head in because of their sexuality or race etc. Yes racism and homophobia isn't nice, but the real issue is that someone bashed someones head in; their motivation for doing it is pretty irrelevant
By that logic, genocide is also a stupid concept, since it also depends on targeting particular groups, which is what distinguishes it from the broader "crimes against humanity".
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