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c4 binomial expansion

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Reply 40
Original post by Physics Enemy
You're trying to go above or at least at the edge of C4 to answer a simple C4 Q that has a simple method. I said 'we need to', I didn't say no other way. Big extrapolation. This is a semantic discussion.

This is not any harder than C4 and it's only "above" C4 in your opinion because it's dfferent to what the C4 textbook tells you. Another textbook may not even mention the factorising method.

I think the majority of students finish A Level maths thinking that the only way to expand (x+y)n(x+y)^n in C4 is to change it into xn(1+yx)nx^n(1+\frac{y}{x})^n. This is a misconception caused by teachers/textbooks.
Reply 41
Original post by Notnek
This is not any harder than C4 and it's only "above" C4 in your opinion because it's dfferent to what the C4 textbook tells you. Another textbook may not even mention the factorising method.

I think the majority of students finish A Level maths thinking that the only way to expand (x+y)n(x+y)^n in C4 is to change it into xn(1+yx)nx^n(1+\frac{y}{x})^n. This is a misconception caused by teachers/textbooks.


I think this sort of thing is a recurring problem in A level maths where a concept is stated with little to no introduction or explanation and students are expected just accept it.

But at the same time, there are going to be students who won't understand the finer details required for the explanation, so it's probably better to avoid them

The problem I have with it though, is that you have teachers who aren't willing to explain the finer details to those who would understand them and are inquisitive.
(edited 6 years ago)
I want to understand how it actually works, not just learn an rule to do incredibly easy exam questions which I've done dozens of (only slightly hard ones are where you have to use your result for estimations or figure out what value of x you would need for a particular estimation).But yeah I had forgotten all my c2 work on binomial and combinations when I was taught this topic in c4 so I just learnt how to do the questions with very little understanding about why. So far there hasn't been any maths past core a-level, just some algebraic manipulations.

I will add though, that I don't get why nC2=n(n-1)/2 using formula nCk=(n-k)(n-k+1)/k! @Zacken
Original post by Notnek
This is not any harder than C4 and it's only "above" C4 in your opinion because it's dfferent to what the C4 textbook tells you. Another textbook may not even mention the factorising method.

I think the majority of students finish A Level maths thinking that the only way to expand (x+y)n(x+y)^n in C4 is to change it into xn(1+yx)nx^n(1+\frac{y}{x})^n. This is a misconception caused by teachers/textbooks.


The simplest method (perceived) is taught because it's efficient. Usually the method above, in other words. Students aren't asked about probability of more complex methods existing to do it instead.

You're wanting to be different and go above the Q level. I can understand why (to show off), but I disagree with it. I was also misinterpreted.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 44
Original post by black1blade
I want to understand how it actually works, not just learn an rule to do incredibly easy exam questions which I've done dozens of (only slightly hard ones are where you have to use your result for estimations or figure out what value of x you would need for a particular estimation).But yeah I had forgotten all my c2 work on binomial and combinations when I was taught this topic in c4 so I just learnt how to do the questions with very little understanding about why. So far there hasn't been any maths past core a-level, just some algebraic manipulations.

I will add though, that I don't get why nC2=n(n-1)/2 using formula nCk=(n-k)(n-k+1)/k! @Zacken


it's not (n-k)(n-k+1)/k!

it's n(n-1)(n-2)... (n-(k-1))/ k!

So for k=2

we have n(n-1)/2! since k-1 = 1
Original post by Desmos
I think this sort of thing is a recurring problem in A level maths where a concept is stated with little to no introduction or explanation and students are expected just accept it.

But at the same time, there are going to be students who won't understand the finer details required for the explanation, so it's probably better to avoid them

The problem I have with it though, is that you have teachers who aren't willing to explain the finer details to those who would understand them and are inquisitive.


Yeah I had 2 teachers for maths this year, 1 taught me core and the other taught me mechanics and a handful of core topics including this one (alongside functions which we did as soon as we came back after summer and initially I did NOT get it at all, as well as implicit differentiate and differential equations which are easy topics). The teacher I had for mechanics was very good at explain mechanics and showing us methods of solving problems but when he taught the core maths topics he showed us the method of doing it without much explanation or proof which is in stark contrast to my other teacher.
Reply 46
Original post by black1blade
I want to understand how it actually works, not just learn an rule to do incredibly easy exam questions which I've done dozens of (only slightly hard ones are where you have to use your result for estimations or figure out what value of x you would need for a particular estimation).But yeah I had forgotten all my c2 work on binomial and combinations when I was taught this topic in c4 so I just learnt how to do the questions with very little understanding about why. So far there hasn't been any maths past core a-level, just some algebraic manipulations.

I will add though, that I don't get why nC2=n(n-1)/2 using formula nCk=(n-k)(n-k+1)/k! @Zacken


nCk = [n(n-1)...(n-k+1)]/k! (n-k)! in the numerator is cancelled with (n-k)! in the denominator
Reply 47
Original post by Physics Enemy

You're wanting to be different and go above the Q level. I can understand why (to show off), but I disagree with it. I was also misinterpreted.

I have never "shown off" in this forum - you are so wrong in thinking this. If this was a C4 student who was revising for their exams then there would be no way that I would allow this discussion to continue because it might confuse the student.

Please read the OP's question again and remember that they have finished C4:


Wondering why it must always be in the form (1+ax)^n when doing the expansion in ascending powers of x? (probably should have found this out before my exam but whatever)


The answer is that it doesn't have to be in that form but it's done to make use of the famous binomial series formula. Plus it makes the expansion easier and it is easier to spot convergence properties.
Original post by Notnek
I have never "shown off" in this forum - you are so wrong in thinking this. If this was a C4 student who was revising for their exams then there would be no way that I would allow this discussion to continue because it might confuse the student.

Please read the OP's question again and remember that they have finished C4:



The answer is that it doesn't have to be in that form but it's done to make use of the famous binomial series formula. Plus it makes the expansion easier and it is easier to spot convergence properties.


Personally I'm not normally confused by further explanations and I would still use the same method in exam questions. I do think expansions of negative and fractional powers is quite a confusing topic probably because it's quite hard/ impossible to visualize unlike expanding the brackets of (a+b)^2 or (a+b)^3 ect...
Also yeah I am assuming finding the sum to infinity of a fractional or negative 2 value expansion is very complicated maths because there isn't a linear common ratio...
Original post by Notnek
This is not any harder than C4 and it's only "above" C4 in your opinion because it's dfferent to what the C4 textbook tells you. Another textbook may not even mention the factorising method.

I think the majority of students finish A Level maths thinking that the only way to expand (x+y)n(x+y)^n in C4 is to change it into xn(1+yx)nx^n(1+\frac{y}{x})^n. This is a misconception caused by teachers/textbooks.


Yeah, I thought that too. I wish I'd known the other expansion for the exam (for (x+y)n(x+y)^n directly without factoring out), it would've probably saved me time on this year's relatively tricky OCR C4 paper.

Thanks @Zacken and @Notnek for posting :smile:
Original post by K-Man_PhysCheM
Yeah, I thought that too. I wish I'd known the other expansion for the exam (for (x+y)n(x+y)^n directly without factoring out), it would've probably saved me time on this year's relatively tricky OCR C4 paper.

Thanks @Zacken and @Notnek for posting :smile:


Properly reading and copying questions would have saved me a lot more time XD. Fingers crossed 90 ums is mid 80s... At least core 3 was nice apart from the last question.
Reply 52
This may sound like a silly question after all this but this thread has got me rethinking what the main reasons are that C4 textbooks tell students to factorise first.

If students got used to expanding using (x+y)^n = x^n + nx^(n-1)y + ... and not changing the form first, would the expansion be much harder?

And why doesn't the C2 textbook tell students to factorise first when there are integer powers?

@Zacken @RDKGames thoughts?
Original post by K-Man_PhysCheM
Yeah, I thought that too. I wish I'd known the other expansion for the exam (for (x+y)n(x+y)^n directly without factoring out), it would've probably saved me time on this year's relatively tricky OCR C4 paper.

Thanks @Zacken and @Notnek for posting :smile:


Memorising a long formula can be harder and more vulnerable under pressure than pulling out a factor and multiplying it through on the (1 + x)^n formula given.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by black1blade
Properly reading and copying questions would have saved me a lot more time XD. Fingers crossed 90 ums is mid 80s... At least core 3 was nice apart from the last question.


Haha yeah, I messed up C1 this year by misreading not one but 2 questions and I didn't notice my misreads until I had about 10 mins left. I rushed the arithmetic and got the wrong answers in the end when I retried the questions, but hopefully I'll get some method marks. I think the rest of the exams went relatively okay, C4 was very time pressured for me and I had no time to check, which stressed me out a lot, but it seems I did alright. Now the wait till August...

Good luck with your results!
Original post by Notnek
This may sound like a silly question after all this but this thread has got me rethinking what the main reasons are that C4 textbooks tell students to factorise first.

If students got used to expanding using (x+y)^n = x^n + nx^(n-1)y + ... and not changing the form first, would the expansion be much harder?

And why doesn't the C2 textbook tell students to factorise first when there are integer powers?

@Zacken @RDKGames thoughts?


I was introduced to the C2 binomial expansion by looking at Pascal's triangle. There was a very satisfying symmetry between the powers and the coefficients, which the C4 expansion lacks (at least intuitively imo).

Don't know why C4 teaches us to expand* though...

EDIT: to factor out before expanding
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 56
Original post by Physics Enemy
Memorising a long formula can be harder and more vulnerable under pressure than pulling out a factor and multiplying through on the (1 + x)^n formula given.

It's a small, quick job.

The (x+y)^n formula is just as long as the (1+x)^n formula. They could put (x+y)^n in the formula book instead of (1+x)^n.
Original post by K-Man_PhysCheM
Haha yeah, I messed up C1 this year by misreading not one but 2 questions and I didn't notice my misreads until I had about 10 mins left. I rushed the arithmetic and got the wrong answers in the end when I retried the questions, but hopefully I'll get some method marks. I think the rest of the exams went relatively okay, C4 was very time pressured for me and I had no time to check, which stressed me out a lot, but it seems I did alright. Now the wait till August...

Good luck with your results!


You too :biggrin: and sounds like luckily, I did AS last year although I did find core 1 a nightmare last year too (scrapped an A but made up for it in c2 and stats) from being unprepared and lacking confidence in non calc calculations.

But yeah considering we're both probably gonna apply for physics natsci at cambridge, not getting an A* in a-level maths would definitely scupper chances so fingers well and truly crossed! Did you answer all the questions in c4? I couldn't do about 7 marks and I wish I had spent time checking previous questions rather than banging head against harder questions I couldn't do. I don't know for a fact but I'm fairly sure I forgot +c and also in implicit differentiation question, I think I might have said x^2=4 (which was right), therefore x=ROOT2 (which is obviously wrong). Annoying that silly errors have probably dipped me into 80s.

That said I'm sure you've got an A* for sure rodgenium boi :P (when is your smarty pants seminar thingy on that btw?).
Reply 58
Original post by black1blade
You too :biggrin: and sounds like luckily, I did AS last year although I did find core 1 a nightmare last year too (scrapped an A but made up for it in c2 and stats) from being unprepared and lacking confidence in non calc calculations.

But yeah considering we're both probably gonna apply for physics natsci at cambridge, not getting an A* in a-level maths would definitely scupper chances so fingers well and truly crossed! Did you answer all the questions in c4? I couldn't do about 7 marks and I wish I had spent time checking previous questions rather than banging head against harder questions I couldn't do. I don't know for a fact but I'm fairly sure I forgot +c and also in implicit differentiation question, I think I might have said x^2=4 (which was right), therefore x=ROOT2 (which is obviously wrong). Annoying that silly errors have probably dipped me into 80s.

That said I'm sure you've got an A* for sure rodgenium boi :P (when is your smarty pants seminar thingy on that btw?).


They don't care about the constant of integration for C4
Original post by Notnek
The (x+y)^n formula is just as long as the (1+x)^n formula. They could put (x+y)^n in the formula book instead of (1+x)^n.


Only opened to formula book once to check a couple more obscure integrations like tanx but definitely understand a lot of the stuff is reassuring for weaker candidates who don't memorise formulas off by heart after doing every single past paper+ multiple solomon papers....

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