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B1236 - No Taxation Without Representation Bill 2017 Watch

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    B1236 - No Taxation Without Representation Bill 2017, the Rt Hon Jammy Duel, seconded by the Rt Hon hazzer1998 MP (UKIP)




    Votes For 4 Year Olds Bill 2017

    A bill to relieve those who are not enfranchised from the burden of taxation

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1. PAYE taxes
    (1) The age from which PAYE taxes are levied shall be 18 years.

    2. Sales taxes
    (1) No taxes on the sale of good shall be levied on individuals who can provide evidence they are below the age of 18
    (2) Forms of identification acceptable for proof of age are:
    (a) a valid passport;
    (b) a valid driving licence;
    (c) any valid ID card bearing the PASS hologram;
    (d) HM Armed Forced identity card;
    (e) a valid UK firearms licence.
    (3) The penalty for failing to levy sales taxes to an individual not exempted under this section shall be:
    (a) for the individual processing the transaction, not more than £5000 and 6 months imprisonment;
    (b) for the owner of the store in which the transaction took place, not more than £5000 and 6 months imprisonment.

    3. Commencement, short title and extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the No Taxation Without Representation Bill 2017.
    (2) This Act extends to the whole of the United Kingdom
    (3) This Act comes into force 1st April 2018.

    Notes
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    A big deal is made about individuals not having the ability to vote while still being liable to pay taxes, this bill aims to minimise this. The first section of the bill removes those aged 16 and 17 from direct taxation, i.e. National Insurance and Income tax by increasing the age from which these are levied from 16 to 18. The second section is there to minimise indirect taxation by making it a mandatory to remove sales taxes, such as VAT and fuel duty, from the cost of goods when the purchaser can prove they are under the age of 18.


    Costing
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    Due to the fact that the number of people in the 16-17 age band is only approximately 2 million and the fact that the vast vast majority of those in this age band are in full time education and shouldn't even be earning enough to pay NI, let alone income tax, I feel that the cost of section 1 is comfortably below the conventional £100m threshold for costing. Beyond this income data for this age range appears practically non existent making it near impossible to cost without making reasoned assumptions as to employment rates, hours worked, and hourly rates for this age demographic.

    As for section 2, I have no intention of costing this for two reason: (1) the data needed is definitely not available given that to my knowledge no breakdown of who pays these taxes includes a 0-18 stat, and (2) section 2 isn't serious.


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    I don't think I need to point out the error. Nay.
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    Have no idea why you've written "votes for four year olds bill" on it. (Directed to Jammy)
    I'm personally torn on the 16 year old voting issue, and so am likely to abstain on this bill.
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    Finally the other part of this debate comes to fruition. Aye.
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    ffs
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    Sounds like a tax avoidance charter. For example, I get my 17 year old younger brother (if I had one) to pay for my new PC, and do not pay the 20% VAT. Or petrol if I had a car (I don't but you get the point).

    So Nay.

    And I support the age of voting being 16.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Sounds like a tax avoidance charter. For example, I get my 17 year old younger brother (if I had one) to pay for my new PC, and do not pay the 20% VAT. Or petrol if I had a car (I don't but you get the point).

    So Nay.

    And I support the age of voting being 16.
    I believe VAT isn't a PAYE tax.
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    (Original post by LifeIsFine)
    I believe VAT isn't a PAYE tax.
    It is a sales tax, as in part 2 of the Bill.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    It is a sales tax, as in part 2 of the Bill.
    Valid, ignore my silly comment. In fact, even though it seems rather small in my eyes it pushes me towards a nay.
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    Nay. I don't agree.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Nay. I don't agree.
    I think you're in the wrong party if you oppose moves that reduce taxation, particularly for the disenfranchised.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think you're in the wrong party if you oppose moves that reduce taxation, particularly for the disenfranchised.
    I think the lack of support is more to do with the certain flaws in this bill i.e. 'Votes for 4 Year Olds Bill 2017', the fact the losses cannot be calculated, and that the realism of applying such a bill is questionable.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I think you're in the wrong party if you oppose moves that reduce taxation, particularly for the disenfranchised.
    See what Saunders16 said.

    Also how many under 18 year olds have ID like that? I did not. We were too poor for a holiday so I never needed a passport.
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    I think the lack of support is more to do with the certain flaws in this bill i.e. 'Votes for 4 Year Olds Bill 2017', the fact the losses cannot be calculated, and that the realism of applying such a bill is questionable.
    I would also like to point out that notes clearly haven't been read nor logic applied. Beyond that "too difficult to work out" is an excuse accepted when used by the left even when the impact is clearly well over the £100m figure and the data needed to estimate the figure is available.

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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    See what Saunders16 said.

    Also how many under 18 year olds have ID like that? I did not. We were too poor for a holiday so I never needed a passport.
    According to the 2011 census 83% of the population have passports, varying from 78% in Wales to 92% in London.

    Also, according to the FOI below about 70,000 16 and 17 year olds had driving licenses in 2009, and I assume that includes provisional, I am unsure how this compares to today.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...tatistics_uk_a

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    The "Votes for 4 Year Olds" is such a fail. If only he had posted the bill in the TSR UKIP subforum so that someone else could check it...
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    Er a straight Nay for me
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    (Original post by Unown Uzer)
    The "Votes for 4 Year Olds" is such a fail. If only he had posted the bill in the TSR UKIP subforum so that someone else could check it...
    And it would disappear into the ether never to be seen again

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    According to the 2011 census 83% of the population have passports, varying from 78% in Wales to 92% in London.

    Also, according to the FOI below about 70,000 16 and 17 year olds had driving licenses in 2009, and I assume that includes provisional, I am unsure how this compares to today.

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...tatistics_uk_a

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    The data is very old though. Is there anything recent?
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    The data is very old though. Is there anything recent?
    I don't imagine driving license ownership is a particularly common FOI

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