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Births to foreign born mothers approaching one in every three Watch

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    ...increasing steadily since the 90's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40655563

    Is this a fantastic phenomenon, proof of the remarkable diversity in our society? A harbinger of a glorious future society in which differences in colour, creed and language will disappear?

    Or evidence of one of the most remarkable demographic changes, over a similarly short period, ever witnessed in human history? The consequences of which for social cohesion are impossible to predict?

    Or neither of these, and something else?

    Your thoughts...
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    And I'm one of them. Is there an issue?
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    ...increasing steadily since the 90's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40655563

    Is this a fantastic phenomenon, proof of the remarkable diversity in our society? A harbinger of a glorious future society in which differences in colour, creed and language will disappear?

    Or evidence of one of the most remarkable demographic changes, over a similarly short period, ever witnessed in human history? The consequences of which for social cohesion are impossible to predict?

    Or neither of these, and something else?

    Your thoughts...
    This used to be called invasion but the criminal elite changed the word to immigration and then to migration and most recently, to refugees.
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    All I have to say in this regard is "Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they make mad and we must be literally made to allow the unqualified flow of some 50,000 dependents" That was stated around 50 years ago- It was obvious this was going to happen and instead of assisting a cut in migration the media stopped talking about immigration so it is a double edged sword - they like to demonise people and due to a lack of action we are now looking at I would say an increase in the foreign population of around 5 million by 2030
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    ...increasing steadily since the 90's.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40655563

    Is this a fantastic phenomenon, proof of the remarkable diversity in our society? A harbinger of a glorious future society in which differences in colour, creed and language will disappear?

    Or evidence of one of the most remarkable demographic changes, over a similarly short period, ever witnessed in human history? The consequences of which for social cohesion are impossible to predict?

    Or neither of these, and something else?

    Your thoughts...
    We need to distinguish between migrants who bring something useful to the economy, refugees and illegals.
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    I don't really have a problem.

    The only problem I do have is the destruction of the culture of the country it is occurring in. If people don't respect the culture and don't propagate it, or its reduced and removed because of migration then it becomes an issue as then that countries history and beliefs are fundamentally lost and changed. Mind you thats just human nature and is bound to happen anyway.
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    (Original post by Lighthouse123)
    This used to be called invasion but the criminal elite changed the word to immigration and then to migration and most recently, to refugees.
    To be fair though, it is all those pesky British businesses that keep employing migrants. And those pesky British businesses pay their taxes, as do those annoying migrants. And those pesky British migrant employing business owners and migrants then spend their hard earned cash in British shops and businesses, which not only generates employment for the people who work in those businesses, but more revenue to spend on things like schools and hospitals.

    You are right - it is an absolute tragedy and they should go home, British business should pack up if it can't get the staff and we should all go on the dole.
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    Imagine hating brown people so much that you fear babies. Lol.

    Anyway, the number of foreign births means little with regards to diversity. Around a third of these births are European, they don't help our diversity, after a generation they are to all intents and purposes white Brits.

    Britain can't really call itself diverse until its population reflects that of humanity as a whole. 87% white is still quite homogenous. The next generation will be, what, 70% white? Still homogeneous. Whites won't lose their majority for well over a hundred years. How is that diverse?
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    The mothers/parents might be foreign but the babies will grow up to think of themsleves as british...just like me and lots of other people I know.
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    (Original post by applesforme)
    The mothers/parents might be foreign but the babies will grow up to think of themsleves as british...just like me and lots of other people I know.
    Indeed. It's why I don't get the 'erosion of culture' thing when you consider not everyone who is not white considers themselves foreign. I'm with you in asserting that I am culturally British, despite the brown skin.
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    (Original post by applesforme)
    The mothers/parents might be foreign but the babies will grow up to think of themsleves as british...just like me and lots of other people I know.
    That is a cheerful thought.

    What does "thinking themselves as British" mean, though? What is British?
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    A group of White people > you need more diversity
    A group of Japanese people > we respect you for maintaining your culture and traditions, well done, good on Japan
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    We need to limit births among ethnic minoeities and offer tax incentives to encourage white couples to have more children. Sadly feminism has undermined traditional family values so much that women are not producing the babies required to maintain our culture.
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    (Original post by Whiskey&Freedom)
    We need to limit births among ethnic minoeities and offer tax incentives to encourage white couples to have more children. Sadly feminism has undermined traditional family values so much that women are not producing the babies required to maintain our culture.
    These days, it is the opposite that is happening. The socially conservative countries Japan, Italy, Germany all have far lower birth rates than France, Sweden, Denmark, and other, less conservative, coutnries.

    Feminism has uprooted things so much that going back would hurt us more. Women want more children than they are having (and significantly more than men want); the easier you make it to balance childcare with careers, the more children they will have.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    That is a cheerful thought.

    What does "thinking themselves as British" mean, though? What is British?
    Well firstly I meant it as a catch-all for the whole of the uk. I personally don't actually call myself British unless it's to tick a box on a form, I call myself English. And as for what does it really mean to be English or British...that's pretty hard to answer, needs a thread to itself - something about forward thinking, openness, being welcoming, common sense, muddling along together, doing your duty not letting the side down, keeping it together, keeping face, being reliable and trustworthy in your profession - we expect a high standard of ourselves compared to other parts of the world- you don't ever think your dentist/surgeon/podiatrist might not have qualifications, a healthy dose of xenophobia to people we love really/are jealous of like the French, making fun of the French, disdain for Americans as they are nuts but also being attracted to how everything's bigger and more exciting/dangerous there - which is also a turn-off, consuming American culture on a daily basis and yet ****ging them off all the time, loving other countries' old traditions and feeling we're missing out but hypocritically being embarassed about our own when anyone brings up stuff we did 200 yrs ago e.g. morris dancing, and so on and so on. Then there's all our literature and poetry and folk songs... I think there definitely is something that is "British" but it's hard to pin down, it's not something physical and solid, it's some sort of shared consciousness, way of seeing things, sense of humour, connection to the past - WW2 wasn't that long ago, people say we are still a post-war society, so maybe that figures into it as well. I would say Christianity has a place in Britishness even if you are atheist your atheism still grew out of Christianity (it's always the Christian God I don't believe in rather than any other) and christmas is important even if you're not religious ...Sorry if this was way too long, but you did ask, and so I've tried
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    You seem to a) assume that 'foreign born' means brown, and b) that 'foreign born' is a 'bad thing'.

    Please remember that 'foreign born' includes white women, and the children of Brits born during temp stays overseas. And perhaps you could explain why you think that brown women having British born children is a 'bad thing'?
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    (Original post by applesforme)
    Well firstly I meant it as a catch-all for the whole of the uk. I personally don't actually call myself British unless it's to tick a box on a form, I call myself English. And as for what does it really mean to be English or British...that's pretty hard to answer, needs a thread to itself - something about forward thinking, openness, being welcoming, common sense, muddling along together, doing your duty not letting the side down, keeping it together, keeping face, being reliable and trustworthy in your profession - we expect a high standard of ourselves compared to other parts of the world- you don't ever think your dentist/surgeon/podiatrist might not have qualifications, a healthy dose of xenophobia to people we love really/are jealous of like the French, making fun of the French, disdain for Americans as they are nuts but also being attracted to how everything's bigger and more exciting/dangerous there - which is also a turn-off, consuming American culture on a daily basis and yet ****ging them off all the time, loving other countries' old traditions and feeling we're missing out but hypocritically being embarassed about our own when anyone brings up stuff we did 200 yrs ago e.g. morris dancing, and so on and so on. Then there's all our literature and poetry and folk songs... I think there definitely is something that is "British" but it's hard to pin down, it's not something physical and solid, it's some sort of shared consciousness, way of seeing things, sense of humour, connection to the past - WW2 wasn't that long ago, people say we are still a post-war society, so maybe that figures into it as well. I would say Christianity has a place in Britishness even if you are atheist your atheism still grew out of Christianity (it's always the Christian God I don't believe in rather than any other) and christmas is important even if you're not religious ...Sorry if this was way too long, but you did ask, and so I've tried
    You did try, and thanks for that.

    But where is the shared history, the shared consciousness as you put it? That is the bit I don't get?

    What connection do the children of parents who come from outside the UK have to the the British experience of the Second World War, for example? Let alone Morris Dancing??

    My parents, grandparents lived through it. They fought for this country, were bombed by the Luftwaffe, lived under food rationing. So the whole Churchill, Spitfire, DDay stuff has a bit of resonance to me, although not that much if I am honest. It is history.

    What possible relevance has it to a second generation immigrant? There is no shared history, no shared consciousness.

    What am I missing here?
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    An ideal population graph looks a pyramid, with many babies graduating to few old people. This is good because it shows many young peoples' taxes supporting fewer old people/pensioners.

    But most western countries' graph currently look like a coffin, with a small number of young people, widening out to the baby boom generation (who are hitting pension age) and then narrowing again to older pensioners. This is a disastrous population graph because few tax payers are supporting many elderly and pensioners.

    The UK is actually quite lucky. Through our immigration programme and the comfortable birthrate (even if that is supported by a large proportion of births by first generation Brits) we have more of a column graph going on. Whilst it is not the ideal pyramid, we do have far more young tax payers in proportion to our pensioners, compared to many other countries.

    We need the birthrate to support the babyboomers who are about to be pensioners. It doesn't matter who is doing the giving birth, we need those young people for economic reasons.

    Nobody pointed out this basic truth to the racist elements in the Brexit vote, sadly.
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    (Original post by returnmigrant)
    You seem to a) assume that 'foreign born' means brown, and b) that 'foreign born' is a 'bad thing'.

    Please remember that 'foreign born' includes white women, and the children of Brits born during temp stays overseas. And perhaps you could explain why you think that brown women having British born children is a 'bad thing'?
    Who mentioned "brown people"?

    As far as I can see the only person on this thread doing so is you.
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    (Original post by Crumpet1)
    An ideal population graph looks a pyramid, with many babies graduating to few old people. This is good because it shows many young peoples' taxes supporting fewer old people/pensioners.

    But most western countries' graph currently look like a coffin, with a small number of young people, widening out to the baby boom generation (who are hitting pension age) and then narrowing again to older pensioners. This is a disastrous population graph because few tax payers are supporting many elderly and pensioners.

    The UK is actually quite lucky. Through our immigration programme and the comfortable birthrate (even if that is supported by a large proportion of births by first generation Brits) we have more of a column graph going on. Whilst it is not the ideal pyramid, we do have far more young tax payers in proportion to our pensioners, compared to many other countries.

    We need the birthrate to support the babyboomers who are about to be pensioners. It doesn't matter who is doing the giving birth, we need those young people for economic reasons.

    Nobody pointed out this basic truth to the racist elements in the Brexit vote, sadly.
    Immigration doesn't solve the problem, it only kicks the can down the road. The immigrants themselves retire, and eventually have sub-replacement birth rates themselves. And depending on the quality of the immigrants, you could be creating more prolbems than you solve. For example, muslim immigration, while it has given us kebabs and cheap labour, also has made us trade away tonnes of our individual freedoms to protect us (partially) from it. It has given us huge political instability (Brexit). It has increased crime.

    Far better to actually invest in raising the native birth rate instead (more childcare centres, more female-friendly companies, tax breaks for children based on the education of the parents, etc.). To solve the cause of the low birth rates, not gloss over it.
 
 
 
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