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Muslim sues school for asking her not to wear burka on premises Watch

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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    I mean, why not let women wear what they want?
    Coming from a Muslim, I will assume that the irony is accidental.
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    (Original post by JohnGreek)
    The article in the Guardian (link) seems to be full of a surprising amount of padding, even by the 'muh emotions' standards of that newspaper. Lots of junk about how the mother went to that school and how well her daughter performed in Year 6, which add nothing of interest to the core debate.

    I personally agree with the decision. It's proportionate. Not only are there the security concerns outlined by BigYoSpeck, but there's also the question of intimacy and familiarity. Such parent-teachers meetings are situations where a teacher is expected to convey details about a child's performance and behaviour at school. It's therefore a place where a teacher would expect a lively conversation with a parent, and, particularly at a prestigious school such as this one, the parent to show emotion and react to their suggestions for improvement. The glorified tent cloth does an excellent job at hiding your facial expression, which would feel disturbing to me, as I wouldn't be certain as to whether my feedback was getting across in the way in which I expected it to be.

    The only reason why the child was left alone and embarassed was because of the mother's lack of foresight (not buying one of those clip-on veils), and stupid religious dogma, that prohibited her from showing her face to a group of professional, middle class, middle-aged parents. Hardly a den of sexual predators whose mere witnessing of a female face could be feared to arouse lustful instincts.
    If the photo in the article you linked is what she was wearing, that looks like a detachable niqab that she could've put back on upon leaving school premises. That's what my aunt did when she came to collect me as a child once. This is so trivial and a waste of everyone's time and energy.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Coming from a Muslim, I will assume that the irony is accidental.
    Why?
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    OK, could have just asked for ID.
    And what good is that without being able to confirm that the ID matches the person wearing the mask.
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    (Original post by Getinthegutter)
    I'm very surprised they did not report it to the police, things like that offend them- look on YouTube at the Britain First videos they get so triggered when they walk around towns and cities with the Christian cross particularly ones with big muslim populations.

    This is slightly off topic- during Euro 2016 football competition I had a St George's flag in my window my muslim neighbour reported it to a roaming police officer-the officer told me which house the complaint came from. This is where the double standards start to kick in he had an Hezbulloah flag on display- that's effectively a terrorist organisation-**** all was done, because they play the race/religion card
    Wait, what? You live in the UK [ I presume] and had a St.George's flag in your window, and your Muslim neighbour reported it to the police for being offensive?
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    Westerners in authority would rather see a teenage girl have her body exposed to public scrutiny than try to protect her from gossip and slander during what should be a time devoted to exams.
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    She's not a teenager and we're talking about face not body
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    Incompatible= defiantly refusing to assimilate to the host culture=civil wars throughout Europe.
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    (Original post by markova21)
    Wait, what? You live in the UK [ I presume] and had a St.George's flag in your window, and your Muslim neighbour reported it to the police for being offensive?
    Yes that's correct, I was forced to take it down despite him having the Hezbulloah flag in his window, practically supporting a terrorist organisation
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    (Original post by paulcompaq)
    In the middle east they have law saying you have to cover up or suffer the consequences, so why can't we have our laws saying you can't cover up? It's funny how the countries that want you to cover up are not as safe as those that don't want you to cover up , what does that tell you ?
    So you want England to be like Saudi Arabia?

    Do you not realise the whole 'they do it so why can't we' argument is the most pathetic one you could have come up with?
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    (Original post by JohnGreek)
    Lazy attempt to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as 'xenophobic'. You could have at least saved me the trouble of calling you out for it.

    I've already addressed the fact that people in this country expect to see another's facial expressions when talking to them, particularly in an environment where serious matters (school performance) are discussed with people who are expected to show interest in the progress of a child (their parents).

    I personally don't feel comfortable talking to a slightly nodding piece of cloth. If that's the sentiment of the teachers at that school, then they do indeed have a legitimate wish not to talk to someone whose facial expression is hidden, and the right to ask them to take the obstructing item in question off.
    That is not at all what I was saying - I was merely pointing out that the arguments being made should not be as clear cut as "covered face makes you unidentifiable", because it is possible to recognise a person without seeing their facial features. Claiming that this is an accusation of xenophobia is a pretty lazy attempt on *your* part to dismiss my point.

    As for the fear of the unfamiliar, my point on this was essentially the same as yours - that people expect to see someone's face when talking to them, and so some people may feel uncomfortable if this is not the case in a particular scenario. I simply suggest, therefore, that if people were to recognise this gut reaction in themselves, it might mean that the conversation around facial coverings and security issues could become more productive, as those involved could separate the logic on each side from their emotional response to a situation which they're not used to encountering.

    TL;DR It's not personal, we're all human, just trying to encourage a little self awareness on all sides.
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    (Original post by Beth_H)
    That is not at all what I was saying - I was merely pointing out that the arguments being made should not be as clear cut as "covered face makes you unidentifiable", because it is possible to recognise a person without seeing their facial features. Claiming that this is an accusation of xenophobia is a pretty lazy attempt on *your* part to dismiss my point.

    As for the fear of the unfamiliar, my point on this was essentially the same as yours - that people expect to see someone's face when talking to them, and so some people may feel uncomfortable if this is not the case in a particular scenario. I simply suggest, therefore, that if people were to recognise this gut reaction in themselves, it might mean that the conversation around facial coverings and security issues could become more productive, as those involved could separate the logic on each side from their emotional response to a situation which they're not used to encountering.

    TL;DR It's not personal, we're all human, just trying to encourage a little self awareness on all sides.
    Ah, ok. I thought that you were talking about a xenophobic reaction to anything that doesn't seem inherently British - which includes the veil. Sorry for jumping the gun on that.
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    Some places have dress codes, some places ban/ should ban the full face veil for good reasons, who cares if it insults your religion you have no extra power over other people because you believe in some god
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    (Original post by Moonstruck16)
    He's one of the most deluded Muslims on this forum.

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    There can hardly be a person reading this forum ( if there is even one) who doesn't know both that the Taliban force women to wear Burkas, and that as the US and UK abandoned areas of the country, they regained control of them.

    This is not debateable as a matter of fact, this is not " hate speech" it is just how it is.

    And if Afghanistan is not in as bad a condition as I described why do so many Afghans come to live in the west?
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    How.. progressive? :gah:
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    I think she should be able to wear the actual dress, the Burka. The face veil however isn't mandatory in Islam and isn't nessesary. The only reason she should take it off is for Identification purposes, not because its considered Anti-social by the racist, shallow alt-right. If you consider that to be detrimental to society, ban people who live in their homes like hermits, ban being drunk past a certain limit, ban being silent in a crowded area for too long. Besides, wearing a Burka doesn't make you Anti-social, I've made friends with plenty of women who wear FULL burkas, face veil included. Their actually easier to engage with, as no 'external agendas' usually exist. Not that flirting/chivalry is bad, its just kinda awkward to communicate like that sometimes, for everyone. As for the case being thrown out, thats rubbish. That contradicts the very principals, values and ethos which this country stands for. Imagine if cases were thrown out because some alt-right idiot deemed it unimportant. Racism would probably still exist in modern society. Womens rights would probably still be non-existant. Even if this women is utilising tax-payer money for legal aid, thats her right, your right and my right. She is a British citizen and this is her home, you belong in Afghanistan just as much as she does. In fact, you belong in Afghanistan even more than she does with your racist veiws. This case deserves the courts time, and I hope it receives a fair trial.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Absolutely.

    There can hardly be a person reading this forum ( if there is even one) who doesn't know both that the Taliban force women to wear Burkas, and that as the US and UK abandoned areas of the country, they regained control of them.

    This is not debateable as a matter of fact, this is not " hate speech" it is just how it is.

    And he reports the post! Trying to shut down legitimate debate. Pitiable.

    And if Afghanistan is not in as bad a condition as I described why do so many Afghans come to live in the west?
    They don't. Most of them stay in Asia and the Middle East. Its just the your western medias keep repeating, "The wholes of Afghanistan is immigrating to the UK to take our 'freedom'" on loop, and showing you 'endless' video of the minority actually immigrating to the UK.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Absolutely.

    There can hardly be a person reading this forum ( if there is even one) who doesn't know both that the Taliban force women to wear Burkas, and that as the US and UK abandoned areas of the country, they regained control of them.

    This is not debateable as a matter of fact, this is not " hate speech" it is just how it is.

    And he reports the post! Trying to shut down legitimate debate. Pitiable.

    And if Afghanistan is not in as bad a condition as I described why do so many Afghans come to live in the west?
    The majority of women walk around without Burkas in the majority of Afghanistan, even sections occupied by the Taliban. They wear Hijabs, but even those are by choice for 99.99% of women. Again, just because your western medias utilised images of "oppressed" women in Afghanistan to make you believe we need to invade their countries to "liberate" them while sneaking out oil, doesn't mean thats actually happening. They also use that to promote feminism and islamophobia.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Some places have dress codes, some places ban/ should ban the full face veil for good reasons, who cares if it insults your religion you have no extra power over other people because you believe in some god
    The Magna Carta of Rights cares about it.
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    (Original post by Beth_H)
    That is not at all what I was saying - I was merely pointing out that the arguments being made should not be as clear cut as "covered face makes you unidentifiable", because it is possible to recognise a person without seeing their facial features. Claiming that this is an accusation of xenophobia is a pretty lazy attempt on *your* part to dismiss my point.

    As for the fear of the unfamiliar, my point on this was essentially the same as yours - that people expect to see someone's face when talking to them, and so some people may feel uncomfortable if this is not the case in a particular scenario. I simply suggest, therefore, that if people were to recognise this gut reaction in themselves, it might mean that the conversation around facial coverings and security issues could become more productive, as those involved could separate the logic on each side from their emotional response to a situation which they're not used to encountering.

    TL;DR It's not personal, we're all human, just trying to encourage a little self awareness on all sides.
    What people expect, and whats justified are two different things. Also, since when is it okay to make one unnecessarily uncomfortable to make another comfortable from being unnecessarily uncomfortable irrationally? The majority of society is okay with the Burka anyways, just take a look at our democratic parliament. Since when do we make people change to make society comfortable? Your logic takes us back centuries, where 'society' would feel uncomfortable sitting next to a black person, where 'society' was uncomfortable with women out of the kitchen. Now that I mention it, don't the very SAME people on TSR say that muslims need to deal with their uncomfortable feelings towards homosexuality on LGBT forums? Talk about hypocrisy.
 
 
 
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