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If you can identify gender, should you be able to identify race? Watch

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  • View Poll Results: Should you be able to change your racial identity?
    Yes
    6
    24.00%
    No
    19
    76.00%

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    In recent years people have warmed to the idea that your gender isn't biologically assigned and that it is possible to pick and choose throughout the duration of your life. Rachel Dolezal, ex-president of the NAACP, claimed to identify as black and was ridiculed for doing so. Surely however, if a man can identify as a woman and vice versa and gain validation for it, any person of one racial identity should be able to identify as another racial identity and have their identity respected and validated by society? Do you agree, or do you think this is lunacy? Post your views below and vote in the poll.
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    Sorry but I'm going to have to be blunt here because it's no jokes and games now

    If you're born a male, you stay a male because it is imbedded in your chromosomes and you were born with a penis. Same with being female.

    The same with race. I am half Chinese and half Polynesian. It's in my f*cking DNA. I can't change my identity by just saying "I am black". Wtf no, that's like saying a banana can be the same as an apple "because I said so".
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    No, because race isn't a thing. It's just an indicator of where someone originates from, and doesn't directly have an impact on behavior. Yes, different races my be biologically different, but no one can "feel" like a different race. Does that mean they feel like they are from a certain place? Or do they feel more comfortable around a certain race? Either way, these have no bearings on how one behaves so there is no merit behind being transracial.

    That said I think identifying as a different gender is stupid af but that's a whole different topic. At least with transgender people, there is some merit behind their claims.
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    I would personally say no, given how closely related racial identity is with ethnicity which you are born with and cannot choose whatsoever. However there is an interesting question of consistency which this thread raises. People who believe you can change your gender but don't believe that you can change your race are in violation of their own logic. The sentence "sex doesn't equal gender" for instance can easily be converted into "ethnicity doesn't equal race". It's the same principle whereby you're arguing that one element of your identity, be it race or gender, is actually constrained by social expectations of what it is to be of that race/gender which aren't inherent and therefore changeable. In other words, if you believe that a person can change genders, then you would be a hypocrite to believe that they can't change race.
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    ****, I accidentally clicked yes :rofl:
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    First sentence is invalid and has no basis. People have definitely not warmed to the idea of gender being something to pick and choose! There is a lot of scientific data from brain scans and brain structural analyses to show that gender arises from the biological and physiological. Some warped lesbians like Judith Butler may claim gender is socially construced by the environment but they have little basis other than their own personal experience - lesbian brains being similar to male brains she may have a different view of her own gender than most straight women. Studies where child monkeys were offered a mixture of toys and the females chose dolls and the males chose cars has given a lot of weight to the highly likely fact that gender is biologically determined.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article...fer-boys-toys/
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    A guy is a guy and a girl is a girl.
    Sorry if I disappointed you.
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    If you accept you can change gender then yes you should accept race as well
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    absolute lunacy.
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    I identify as 400m
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    I found a couple of pretty good explanations on tumblr about why the terms transgender and 'transracial' don't work in the same way

    [1] http://temperamentalaquarius.tumblr....347565271/okay

    some important quotes-

    > "Race is not fluid - it is not changeable."
    > "Gender ... is incredibly fluid and personal."
    > "[Being transgender] is not about changing your image, it is about you becoming your image." //

    [2] http://heatherjrock-blog.tumblr.com/...sracial-justno

    "Transgendered individuals can go from being male to female or from being female to male. Your starting point doesn’t matter - a ftm has the same ability as a mtf. A White girl can get a perm, a tan, and an NAACP presidency because she “passes” as Black, but a Black girl cannot straighten her hair, bleach her skin, and suddenly be considered White. A White girl can dye her hair, get plastic surgery, and slap on a kimono and call herself Quapa but an Asian girl cannot dye her hair, bleach her skin, and be considered White.

    A White girl can empathize with another race to the extent that she sees the inequalities they face, but at the end of the day she retains her White privilege. She can wake up one morning and walk away from it all. Rachel Dolezal could decide to stop the perms, stop the tanning, and settle down in the Midwest and no one would know any better.

    A Black girl wakes up every morning and is still Black. An Asian girl wakes up every morning and is still Asian. And they have to deal with all the ******** disadvantages that come with that.

    THAT’S WHY “transracial” isn’t a thing - it’s not a two-way street.

    Do NOT compare the two like that." //

    okie so it gets more complicated when dealing with poc who were adopted by white parents and struggle with their ethnic and cultural identity (which is actually the real origin of the term!). But instead, the term 'transracial' is mostly used by white people who claim to 'identify as xyz' because they're obsessed with the culture/music/fashion/food of another country / ethnic group (different to simply admiring, appreciating and respecting these things).

    tl;dr the term 'transracial' - except when used by actual poc in certain situations - undermines and erases the genuine struggles of transgender people and it's quite shocking to see people lumping 'transracial' and transgender people together, and spewing toxic and hurtful transphobic rhetoric.
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    (Original post by BTAnonymous)
    Sorry but I'm going to have to be blunt here because it's no jokes and games now

    If you're born a male, you stay a male because it is imbedded in your chromosomes and you were born with a penis. Same with being female.

    The same with race. I am half Chinese and half Polynesian. It's in my f*cking DNA. I can't change my identity by just saying "I am black". Wtf no, that's like saying a banana can be the same as an apple "because I said so".
    This is the enlightenment definition of identity.

    There is also the sociological definition and the post-modern.
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    while sex is a biology, gender is a social construct. Race isn't really a social construct, its biology.
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    (Original post by murintemed)
    In recent years people have warmed to the idea that your gender isn't biologically assigned and that it is possible to pick and choose throughout the duration of your life. Rachel Dolezal, ex-president of the NAACP, claimed to identify as black and was ridiculed for doing so. Surely however, if a man can identify as a woman and vice versa and gain validation for it, any person of one racial identity should be able to identify as another racial identity and have their identity respected and validated by society? Do you agree, or do you think this is lunacy? Post your views below and vote in the poll.
    There are three main theories on identity:

    - Enlightenment:
    Identity is in your DNA, it is fixed in this way and is somehow innate and generated through inheritance.

    - Sociological
    Identity is formed through your social behaviour, interactions and human development. You act differently with some people than you do with others and so your identity is multi-faceted in this way. This can overlap with the englightenment definition if you argue that your genetics affects your behaviour. Though most people take the view that it is not the sole determinant of behaviour.

    - Post-modern
    All identity is constructed. The only identification which holds any true meaning is that of species (humanity). Any ideas of gender, race etc. is simply a constructed ideological barrier designed to discriminate between people. This then raises the question of can human psychological processes cope with appreciating our peers as 7 billion humans on the planet, or is that too large a size to compute, hence the discrimination, or differentiation between people using "identity".



    I believe that the truth lies in a happy medium between the three. There are some elements of identity (e.g. sexuality) which is very much in the post-modern bucket. But that other aspects of identity (like age) form definitively into the biological bucket.

    For my EPQ I wrote a dissertation on whether young people face an identity crisis right now in the UK. Feel free to fire any further questions to me.
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    then i can identify my f u c k i n g species too. Im half luftfafa 18004 and half giraffe
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    (Original post by levi ackerman)
    I found a couple of pretty good explanations on tumblr about why the terms transgender and 'transracial' don't work in the same way

    [1] http://temperamentalaquarius.tumblr....347565271/okay

    some important quotes-

    > "Race is not fluid - it is not changeable."
    > "Gender ... is incredibly fluid and personal."
    > "[Being transgender] is not about changing your image, it is about you becoming your image." //

    [2] http://heatherjrock-blog.tumblr.com/...sracial-justno

    "Transgendered individuals can go from being male to female or from being female to male. Your starting point doesn’t matter - a ftm has the same ability as a mtf. A White girl can get a perm, a tan, and an NAACP presidency because she “passes” as Black, but a Black girl cannot straighten her hair, bleach her skin, and suddenly be considered White. A White girl can dye her hair, get plastic surgery, and slap on a kimono and call herself Quapa but an Asian girl cannot dye her hair, bleach her skin, and be considered White.

    A White girl can empathize with another race to the extent that she sees the inequalities they face, but at the end of the day she retains her White privilege. She can wake up one morning and walk away from it all. Rachel Dolezal could decide to stop the perms, stop the tanning, and settle down in the Midwest and no one would know any better.

    A Black girl wakes up every morning and is still Black. An Asian girl wakes up every morning and is still Asian. And they have to deal with all the ******** disadvantages that come with that.

    THAT’S WHY “transracial” isn’t a thing - it’s not a two-way street.

    Do NOT compare the two like that." //

    okie so it gets more complicated when dealing with poc who were adopted by white parents and struggle with their ethnic and cultural identity (which is actually the real origin of the term!). But instead, the term 'transracial' is mostly used by white people who claim to 'identify as xyz' because they're obsessed with the culture/music/fashion/food of another country / ethnic group (different to simply admiring, appreciating and respecting these things).

    tl;dr the term 'transracial' - except when used by actual poc in certain situations - undermines and erases the genuine struggles of transgender people and it's quite shocking to see people lumping 'transracial' and transgender people together, and spewing toxic and hurtful transphobic rhetoric.
    I don't believe transgender people are treated equally irregardless of which way they went so to speak. I would have said there is much more stigma around going from man to woman; the idea that you must be gay, the associations with the "ladyboys" of asia, the general fetishisation of it. I think many people would be more likely to treat a ftm as a man than a mtf as a women.

    I personally don't see one as any more logical than the other. If you're born a man but feel like a women, why can't you be born a black person but feel like a white person? Gender is equivalent to race, sex is equivalent to ethnicity. I don't see how, out of gender and race, one is more fluid than the other.
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    The gender thing's straight bull.

    Now that's out the way - no, I don't think you should be able to. I'm a white male with ginger hair...how retarded would it be for me to wake up one morning, look in the mirror and think, 'you know what? I'm going to be a black woman from now on.'

    It's actual insanity - when I look down at my hands and look to my blood relatives there's concrete evidence of my race...to 'identify' as another race would be complete pretence.
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    (Original post by levi ackerman)
    I found a couple of pretty good explanations on tumblr about why the terms transgender and 'transracial' don't work in the same way

    [1] http://temperamentalaquarius.tumblr....347565271/okay

    some important quotes-

    > "Race is not fluid - it is not changeable."
    > "Gender ... is incredibly fluid and personal."
    > "[Being transgender] is not about changing your image, it is about you becoming your image." //

    [2] http://heatherjrock-blog.tumblr.com/...sracial-justno

    "Transgendered individuals can go from being male to female or from being female to male. Your starting point doesn’t matter - a ftm has the same ability as a mtf. A White girl can get a perm, a tan, and an NAACP presidency because she “passes” as Black, but a Black girl cannot straighten her hair, bleach her skin, and suddenly be considered White. A White girl can dye her hair, get plastic surgery, and slap on a kimono and call herself Quapa but an Asian girl cannot dye her hair, bleach her skin, and be considered White.

    A White girl can empathize with another race to the extent that she sees the inequalities they face, but at the end of the day she retains her White privilege. She can wake up one morning and walk away from it all. Rachel Dolezal could decide to stop the perms, stop the tanning, and settle down in the Midwest and no one would know any better.

    A Black girl wakes up every morning and is still Black. An Asian girl wakes up every morning and is still Asian. And they have to deal with all the ******** disadvantages that come with that.

    THAT’S WHY “transracial” isn’t a thing - it’s not a two-way street.

    Do NOT compare the two like that." //

    okie so it gets more complicated when dealing with poc who were adopted by white parents and struggle with their ethnic and cultural identity (which is actually the real origin of the term!). But instead, the term 'transracial' is mostly used by white people who claim to 'identify as xyz' because they're obsessed with the culture/music/fashion/food of another country / ethnic group (different to simply admiring, appreciating and respecting these things).

    tl;dr the term 'transracial' - except when used by actual poc in certain situations - undermines and erases the genuine struggles of transgender people and it's quite shocking to see people lumping 'transracial' and transgender people together, and spewing toxic and hurtful transphobic rhetoric.
    Your argument is absurd and littered with the kind of inconsistencies that commonly accommodate SJW nonsense. Not that I agree that transracial is a thing, but if you're going to suggest that gender is fluid because it's a social construct then so is race. After all, on a biological level race is determined only by minor differences in pigmentation. The rest is environmental be it the culture associated with a racial group, their language or heritage etc. "An Asian girl cannot dye her hair, bleach her skin and be considered white". According to who? This is unfounded speculation with no evidence or research to back it up. The idea of "white privilege" too isn't innate and is simply a human invented categorisation just as gender is, so according to the logic you apply for transgender people, a person can just identify the white away. This doesn't mean they'll actually lose some of the societal advantages which come with being white in a white majority country. The same goes for a man who identifies as a woman or vice versa: unless they undergo very expensive surgery to adopt the other sex's defining organs and endure continued hormonal treatment, they can identify as the other sex all they like, they still retain the biological features of their birth assigned sex. The question therefore isn't of changing gender or race, both of which are impossible, the question is should we give recognition to those who falsely claim to be able to do so? The answer should be no.
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    (Original post by murintemed)
    Post your views below and vote in the poll.
    Trofim Lysenko would have liked the idea.
 
 
 
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