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Tories promote the right to choose your own sex Watch

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    I have no problem with people wanting to change their gender provided it's not in any way related to the '23 gender' discussion lol. What I find more interesting about this though is that if it was Corbyn suggesting this he would be hailed as a hero, but labour supporters will surely willingly ignore any progressive Tory policies so they can continue calling them trans-phobic, archaic etc.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    It's only a matter of time until we get to choose our own species.



    The problem is we in society are forced to go along with it. Here in Ontario, if you don't refer to somebody by their "preferred" gender identity (no matter how bizarre or made up it might be), you could face a legal penalty.

    In my honest opinion, it's a social fad which may or may not be here to stay. This phenomenon involves predominantly young, socially awkward people who have found a new way to express themselves, and now the establishment is embracing it and pandering to them (and forcing the rest of us to do the same).

    A lot of it is encouraged and amplified by the postmodern, hyper-progressive nonsense being taught to people in liberal arts schools.
    I really get what you're saying but at the end of the day whether it's a social fad or not (which it may well be) it just comes down to respect.

    respecting how others want to be treated.

    ultimately, we don't have to understand what it is they prefer, it's as alien to me as you, but it doesn't take much to show some courtesy and to just tolerate.

    and since it's now a law in your province you literally have no choice but to tolerate so we might as well just keep it moving and live our lives.
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    (Original post by hamzakalinle)
    I really get what you're saying but at the end of the day whether it's a social fad or not (which it may well be) it just comes down to respect.

    respecting how others want to be treated.

    ultimately, we don't have to understand what it is they prefer, it's as alien to me as you, but it doesn't take much to show some courtesy and to just tolerate.

    and since it's now a law in your province you literally have no choice but to tolerate so we might as well just keep it moving and live our lives.
    There's a limit to respect that's deserved.

    Sometimes people just need to be told no, such as those forcing the rest of us to call them made up pronouns or have legal documents altered to satisfy their need to feel special.

    Pandering to these people is one thing, but being forced to pander is another thing entirely.

    I am generally a "live and let live" kinda guy, but this is getting ridiculous.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    Never really understood why so many people seem to have an issue with this; it doesn't affect you how other people identify, so it's bizarre that so many people are adamantly against it.
    Just because something might not affect anyone directly on the individual level (and I don't think that is actually the case here, I can see huge potential for abuse with this), doesn't mean it won't have a knock on effect on the wider society in the long term. The government is essentially pandering to the narcissism and massively inflated sense of entitlement of a tiny minority of bored, mostly middle-class, youths. Do you honestly believe that is a good precedent for the state to be setting?
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    In the article it then says:

    Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
    I'm thinking the times have conflated the terms as the article seems to imply you're already legally able to change your biological sex...?

    Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
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    (Original post by shadowdweller)
    Never really understood why so many people seem to have an issue with this; it doesn't affect you how other people identify, so it's bizarre that so many people are adamantly against it.
    Yet it leads on to gender neutral bathrooms, men beating women up in female MMA fights Because said man identifies as a woman, forcing people to use a ridiculous "Ze" pronoun, taxpayers paying for gender reassignment and things like getting rid of "Ladies and Gentlemen" on the tubes.
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    ITT: Muslims and right wingers share the same opinion about sex change :curious:

    :beard:
    ITT: People confusing gender and sex.

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    Just read that question again. Just. Read. It.

    Now read it again. Aloud. Slowly.

    Now think about what you just read.





    Get my point?
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    don't get it? Brainwashed sheeple. Go speak newspeake.
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    (Original post by Meany Pie)
    ITT: People confusing gender and sex.

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    It's a common mistake to make.

    I'm confused though... you can identify as a different gender than your biological sex but then after sex change surgery you're technically a different sex now right? Since you have new genitalia :dontknow:
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    (Original post by illmatics)
    I have no problem with people wanting to change their gender provided it's not in any way related to the '23 gender' discussion lol. What I find more interesting about this though is that if it was Corbyn suggesting this he would be hailed as a hero, but labour supporters will surely willingly ignore any progressive Tory policies so they can continue calling them trans-phobic, archaic etc.
    Umm - the only reason the tories have come out with this is because of pressure from Corbyn

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...rbyn-urges-may
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    It's a common mistake to make.

    I'm confused though... you can identify as a different gender than your biological sex but then after sex change surgery you're technically a different sex now right? Since you have new genitalia :dontknow:
    Sex is determined by chromosomes, this cannot be changed.

    "Sex Change" Surgery was the colloquial name for it, the proper term is Gender Reassignment surgery. However as I understand it you can change your legal sex (how you are viewed in the eyes of the law) without going through surgery.
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    (Original post by Wōden)
    Just because something might not affect anyone directly on the individual level (and I don't think that is actually the case here, I can see huge potential for abuse with this), doesn't mean it won't have a knock on effect on the wider society in the long term. The government is essentially pandering to the narcissism and massively inflated sense of entitlement of a tiny minority of bored, mostly middle-class, youths. Do you honestly believe that is a good precedent for the state to be setting?
    Yes, I entirely believe that supporting transgender people is an excellent precedent for the state to be setting. It may be a small minority, but so are other important causes, such as gay rights and many others, and significantly fewer dispute that as being an unworthy cause; though I'd note that many years ago, the arguments on gay rights would likely be taking a very similar avenue to the discussion we're having now. It's not narcissism, and it's certainly not a recent development as people seem to think, early reassignment surgeries having been recorded since the 1920s, and gender dysphoria itself dating back much earlier.

    (Original post by That'sGreat)
    Yet it leads on to gender neutral bathrooms, men beating women up in female MMA fights Because said man identifies as a woman, forcing people to use a ridiculous "Ze" pronoun, taxpayers paying for gender reassignment and things like getting rid of "Ladies and Gentlemen" on the tubes.
    Yes, I'm sure we'll all be greatly affected by having to use 'Ze', or being called 'everyone' instead of 'ladies and gentlemen'. Realistically that's absolutely no different in terms of impact to someone saying they didn't like a particular nickname, say, and i'm sure you'd be happy to honour that, so why not a pronoun? Also, if a man identifies as a woman, she'd use 'she' anyway, rather than Ze. Ze is a gender neutral pronoun that some people prefer to use, but it's not spread on a large enough scale to really have reason to complain about it.

    In terms of men beating up women in MMA fights, it wouldn't be the case; for one, transwomen would be classed as women, not men. And from the side that I suspect you will take to be more important, they'd only be able to take part after a year or more of HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy), which would greatly bridge the gap in strength, and largely compensate for the aspect you seem to be concerned about.

    Realistically, you'd be contributing an incredibly negligible amount of your tax to this, so the whole argument about tax payers and the surgery is a bit of a misnomer. Yes, a very small portion of money may end up going to it, but it also goes to many more causes that are far less worthy, and it still doesn't impact you as to how that small portion is spent.
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    (Original post by That'sGreat)
    Yet it leads on to gender neutral bathrooms, men beating women up in female MMA fights Because said man identifies as a woman, forcing people to use a ridiculous "Ze" pronoun, taxpayers paying for gender reassignment and things like getting rid of "Ladies and Gentlemen" on the tubes.
    Yeah the ze pronoun is flipping ridiculous, I'm never calling someone that
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
    Paywall. Which other Tories, besides Greening (who came out last year), are in on the (predictable) cultural Marxist act?
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    (Original post by Meany Pie)
    Sex is determined by chromosomes, this cannot be changed.

    "Sex Change" Surgery was the colloquial name for it, the proper term is Gender Reassignment surgery. However as I understand it you can change your legal sex (how you are viewed in the eyes of the law) without going through surgery.
    Ohh
    Thanks for clearing that up
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    (Original post by StrawbAri)
    Ohh
    Thanks for clearing that up
    No problem :hat2:
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    Do people even know what this law actually is? It's a long demanded reconsideration of an existing law. I signed a government petition about it months ago, possibly over a year ago.

    It's not a free pass to gender reassignment surgery. It's a way to make it easier to change the sex marker on your legal documents, eg passport. To gain gender reassignment of any medical form you still have to go through the convoluted process of before (two years living as your 'chosen' gender, a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria by a trained gender therapist).

    The transphobia on this thread is utterly shocking, honestly. There's so much intolerance towards the idea of giving people a small amount of respect. Possibly the most common question I get asked as a trans person is 'well what does it say on your passport/birth certificate' and this law change gives me hope of one day being able to live as I want to without fear of being judged and dismissed. While for many people it's 'the Tories pandering to lefties', for some people this move to make it easier is life changing.
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    I am all for supporting people to live as they wish and I hope I always treat others with respect but....

    I am currently training for triathlons and I have a chance of getting a podium place in my age group. I would be mightily p-----d off if someone born a man used the proposed quick route to declaring that ze was now a woman (despite stilll having all the wedding tackle that ze was born with) and using zis superior strength and height to beat me in the race. Sorry I can't help it but I would feel cheated. Increasing trans people's rights should not come at the expense of women's rights.
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    A birth certificate shows your sex, not your gender, and your sex refers to your genetic make up incl. what sexual organs you possess. I'm not sure why these people are being allowed to change it 'without permission of a doctor' when they clearly are not biologically male?

    You can ****ing piss and whine all you want some of you that 'it's not harming anyone' but in a medical emergency, whether you are male or female will obviously have an impact and if a doctor thinks you're a female because you choose to call yourself that despite having a **** and 2 balls then you're an absolute ****.

    Be whatever cockamamy gender you want, but sex is not a social construct and all you need to do is look down there and find out what sex you are.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    It's only a matter of time until we get to choose our own species.



    The problem is we in society are forced to go along with it. Here in Ontario, if you don't refer to somebody by their "preferred" gender identity (no matter how bizarre or made up it might be), you could face a legal penalty.

    In my honest opinion, it's a social fad which may or may not be here to stay. This phenomenon involves predominantly young, socially awkward people who have found a new way to express themselves, and now the establishment is embracing it and pandering to them (and forcing the rest of us to do the same).

    A lot of it is encouraged and amplified by the postmodern, hyper-progressive nonsense being taught to people in liberal arts schools.
    Yes, I very much doubt anyone over 30 buys into this nonsense. People can label themselves if they want, but I'm not going to use a made-up pronoun. You can't say anything against it without being called a bigot - in other words "you disagree with me, so you're a bigot."

    I'm a member of a minority and I'm happy enough that people have their own opinions. We can't have a thought police. Let people get on with their lives and don't abuse, but you can't change opinion through name-calling and brow beating people. They are demanding respect and showing none themselves. That leads to resentment and further division. I do think it's a fad, but I'm worried about what will replace it.


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