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Feminism, are we actually equal? Watch

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    (Original post by mrtastyduck)
    The problem with feminism now has been perfectly outlined. There is no legal way in which women are disadvantaged. It's all about how they think women have it bad.

    Feminism is currently all about "women are encouraged" this or "stereotypes" that.

    Well done Einstein, you've figured out that people have ideas and expectations of everyone. Problem is you can't police thought and ideas so now you're stuck. Feminism is reduced to whining about small gripes over perception. I'm pretty sure once you grow up you realise that you can do what you want without the approval of everyone around you. If you can't grow the balls to apply for STEM fields cos you its "a male dominated environment" then the problem is you being a weak person who bows to peer pressure.

    As well as this, other feminist talking points are a joke. They rely on skewed statistics, misleading studies and a healthy dose of baseless narrative to be created.

    Read this thread it's 100% whining about how feminists perceive society views of women but have no concrete issues or any solutions. Feminism is an easy route to ***** and complain about non-issues.

    Quit whining about being called bossy and grow a thicker skin. Quit whining about beauty standards. Everyone else can deal with it, so can women surely? Don't like that men do more science subjects than women? Then take up science yourself or shut up.
    Legal equality does not mean we have equality. We are not "whining" do not belittle such big issues as this to whining. Do u have any idea how damaging it is to be told that ur being boyish if u have an interest in maths/science? Girls and boys at a young age do not have thick skins, they learn by listening to what they are being told. So if our societies continues these stereotypes, young people will still take not, and when they grow up and start GCSE's and A-Levels it's too late. How can this change? We destroy these stupid Stone Age stereotypes which simply do not apply anymore. Change is starting to happen, for example now girls have a female superhero to incision themselves as thanks to the Wonder Woman film, this will cause more young girls to adapt superheroes characteristics, stuff like this may seem small to us, but make a massive difference in our future society.
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    (Original post by mrtastyduck)
    The problem with feminism now has been perfectly outlined. There is no legal way in which women are disadvantaged. It's all about how they think women have it bad.

    Feminism is currently all about "women are encouraged" this or "stereotypes" that.

    Well done Einstein, you've figured out that people have ideas and expectations of everyone. Problem is you can't police thought and ideas so now you're stuck. Feminism is reduced to whining about small gripes over perception. I'm pretty sure once you grow up you realise that you can do what you want without the approval of everyone around you. If you can't grow the balls to apply for STEM fields cos you its "a male dominated environment" then the problem is you being a weak person who bows to peer pressure.

    As well as this, other feminist talking points are a joke. They rely on skewed statistics, misleading studies and a healthy dose of baseless narrative to be created.

    Read this thread it's 100% whining about how feminists perceive society views of women but have no concrete issues or any solutions. Feminism is an easy route to ***** and complain about non-issues.

    Quit whining about being called bossy and grow a thicker skin. Quit whining about beauty standards. Everyone else can deal with it, so can women surely? Don't like that men do more science subjects than women? Then take up science yourself or shut up.

    Feminism is not whining about being called bossy. It is a movement much bigger than that.
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    (Original post by folluber)
    So I don't study physics because I like physics, but instead have been subliminally encouraged by societal factors that you can't even show me? lol

    No, it's both, obviously. You were encouraged to like physics.

    I love how you think that's so unreasonable, but would be willing to accept that "I love physics because of an inbuilt force that I can't even show you" *lol*.
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    (Original post by AKB2000)
    And men are more likely to die at work because women are still not allowed to do jobs which put them at higher risk
    Which jobs are these?
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    In a social and cultural sense, I don't think men and women can ever be equal because the simple fact of the matter is that they are not the same. They are physically, biologically, psychologically and emotionally different in so many ways that the assumption that they even ought to be socially and culturally equal is unfounded. There are such strong trends in abilities, behaviours and other characteristics linked to gender that societal expectations and stereotypes will always be different for men and women.

    What we can do is try to eradicate institutionalised prejudice and discrimination based on gender, so that as far as possible, everyone starts out on an equal footing in terms of rights and opportunities. But there's no reason to expect the outcome to be the same for both genders, because their choices as to how to use those rights and opportunities will start to diverge at some point.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    No, it's both, obviously. You were encouraged to like physics.

    I love how you think that's so unreasonable, but would be willing to accept that "I love physics because of an inbuilt force that I can't even show you" *lol*.
    Was I encouraged? Encouraged by what? Could social stigma have encouraged me to do physics? You don't know what makes people want to do anything, yet you're so confident that society is conspiring against women to make them not want to do jobs in the stem fields or higher paying fields, (despite having a much higher opportunity to with much better grades in mathematics and physics, and all kinds of schemes generated by the Institute of Physics and education organizations that can guarantee women work placements, internships, etc) rather than just assuming they don't want to do it.

    Let's actually give human beings a bit of respect and accept the choices they make with their freedom. If they make bad ones, let's not blame those choices on social stigma or environmental factors beyond that individuals control and allow them to accept their responsibilities.

    I love how you're a mind reader, who can assert what I think is reasonable or unreasonable.
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    (Original post by folluber)
    Was I encouraged? Encouraged by what? Could social stigma have encouraged me to do physics? You don't know what makes people want to do anything, yet you're so confident that society is conspiring against women to make them not want to do jobs in the stem fields or higher paying fields, (despite having a much higher opportunity to with much better grades in mathematics and physics, and all kinds of schemes generated by the Institute of Physics and education organizations that can guarantee women work placements, internships, etc) rather than just assuming they don't want to do it.

    Let's actually give human beings a bit of respect and accept the choices they make with their freedom. If they make bad ones, let's not blame those choices on social stigma or environmental factors beyond that individuals control and allow them to accept their responsibilities.

    I love how you're a mind reader, who can assert what I think is reasonable or unreasonable.
    Finally someone with more than 4 brain cells, we're obviously never gonna be fully equal but men and women in the west pretty much have the same opportunies. In terms of jobs and that we're the same, why do feminists blame society for women not going into high paying careers. When did maths and science become masculine? If anything women have an advantage in these fields when so many firms have women only internships and crap like that. Can't remember where I read this but apparently women are twice as likely to be hired for engineering jobs. Don't see any feminists complaining about these women only scholarships and placements, what happened to standing up for both sexes.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    What do you mean people from HR don't interview averages? Of course they do, that makes absolutely no sense.
    How on Earth can you interview a mathematical parameter? I was not talking about average people, but about qualities of populations on average. I've adressed that so many times I though it should be obvious.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    One would argue that encouragement to pursue Maths is more of an important social issue than playing the piano, in regards to career development and income.
    Although access to the arts is an issue in its own right, it's not relevant to the discussion as it's more of a class than gender issue.
    Neuhaus would not agreed with you, but whatever. It was just an example. Most of kids I knew were crappy in maths too, and their parents usually were doing nothing about it.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You have a very naive opinion about people and it's borderline ignorant. Intelligent people can be just as closed minded as the rest. If you want to ignore an entire body of knowledge relating to stereotypes and it's effects based on nothing other than a naive, baseless opinion, then I really do not think you are as intelligent as you think you are. You aren't willing to learn anytning about this topic, which just seems ignorant to me.
    I just don't have time for it. I'm only discussing arguments which appear to be nonsense.
    And yes, I'm not a genius. According to tests, I have only above the average intelligence.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You say you don't use stereotypical thinking but your statement that "many feminists behave in a way which makes [hate towards] them justified" is a perfect example of stereotypical thinking.
    No, it's just my experience. Sounds like you can't or do not wish to see the difference between all and many.
    And there are many terrible feminists. Just look at this tweets, it's disgusting.
    https://youtu.be/g2QILeh2KYs?t=1m20s

    And before you start: "Men tell disgusting sexist jokes", I don't and don't expect me to admire someone who imitates the worst role models.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You are using the actions of select individuals to justify hatred towards an entire body of individuals. There cannot be a clearer example of prejudice than that.
    No. I'm only explaining, why there is so much hatred towards feminism. It has bad image in society, at least partly thanks to some of its own idiot activists, who get a lot of media coverage or run provocations in the internet. I understand it's just a small % of the whole movement, but try explaining it to simplier people. It won't work. I even have female friends who hate feminists, because the movement has made itself a bad image.
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    (Original post by AKB2000)
    I'm going to start this off by saying Feminism is equality for BOTH genders, it is not "man hating" the only reason why people believe this is because the only extreme cases reach the media which often are just man hating protests. In my opinion we are still not equal even in first world countries. Just an example some people may recognise if a boy takes control of a group he's a leader, if a girl does the same she is bossy.
    Feminists only feel this way and have this flawed view as some touchy feminist women feel so paranoid that everyone is hating on them all the time when no one actually is! Feminism stand still up for Women, it does NOTHING for men.
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    (Original post by AKB2000)
    Legal equality does not mean we have equality. We are not "whining" do not belittle such big issues as this to whining. Do u have any idea how damaging it is to be told that ur being boyish if u have an interest in maths/science? Girls and boys at a young age do not have thick skins, they learn by listening to what they are being told. So if our societies continues these stereotypes, young people will still take not, and when they grow up and start GCSE's and A-Levels it's too late. How can this change? We destroy these stupid Stone Age stereotypes which simply do not apply anymore. Change is starting to happen, for example now girls have a female superhero to incision themselves as thanks to the Wonder Woman film, this will cause more young girls to adapt superheroes characteristics, stuff like this may seem small to us, but make a massive difference in our future society.
    What LOOOOL, most of the pople doing chem and bio are girls, the numbers doing maths are equal and we have some girls in my phys class not once did the thought even cross my mind that they were being 'boyish'
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    I dont really know whether we are equal. Although laws have been passed to promote equality, such as the Equal Pay Act of 1970. However equality by law doesn't always mean equality in society. Men and women can be, and are treated differently in some circumstances.
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    (Original post by BuddingRetard)
    I dont really know whether we are equal. Although laws have been passed to promote equality, such as the Equal Pay Act of 1970. However equality by law doesn't always mean equality in society. Men and women can be, and are treated differently in some circumstances.
    What I said doesn't really make sense. Please ignore the 'however' when reading.
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    Feminism = equalisation of rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes (assumes females do not enjoy equal rights). They have equal rights under law; ergo, no need for feminism (in UK). What the OP is on about is diverse attitudes, and the only way to cure those is to send in the thought police (who can do one as far as most of humanity are concerned) :yy:
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    Women:

    - Live longer.
    - Receive more charity.
    - Are less likely to be homeless.
    - Are less likely to commit suicide.
    - Are less likely to be a victim of murder or a violent crime.
    - Get significantly less jail time for the same crimes.
    - Have more money spent on their health and safety.
    - Get a huge amount of public support and recognition of their "issues."
    - Are considered oppressed and underprivileged despite all this because there are too few female high-earners and their great-great-grandmothers didn't get the vote until shortly after all men got the vote.

    So no, I suppose men and women aren't very equal.
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    (Original post by TheDuo)
    Feminists only feel this way and have this flawed view as some touchy feminist women feel so paranoid that everyone is hating on them all the time when no one actually is! Feminism stand still up for Women, it does NOTHING for men.
    It works hand in hand for equality for both genders. It breaks stereotypes that are dragging down both genders, for example women (stereotypically) are dependent, and men (stereotypically) are independent, both these stereotypes are wrong, but it's what's expected, feminists break the stereotypes, benefiting women and MEN.
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    (Original post by folluber)
    Was I encouraged? Encouraged by what? Could social stigma have encouraged me to do physics? You don't know what makes people want to do anything, yet you're so confident that society is conspiring against women to make them not want to do jobs in the stem fields or higher paying fields, (despite having a much higher opportunity to with much better grades in mathematics and physics, and all kinds of schemes generated by the Institute of Physics and education organizations that can guarantee women work placements, internships, etc) rather than just assuming they don't want to do it.

    Let's actually give human beings a bit of respect and accept the choices they make with their freedom. If they make bad ones, let's not blame those choices on social stigma or environmental factors beyond that individuals control and allow them to accept their responsibilities.

    I love how you're a mind reader, who can assert what I think is reasonable or unreasonable.
    Mind reader? It's common sense, if everything around kids growing up is stereotypes, we will continue building a stereotypical society. Just as an example, Big Bang theory, the main characters that are geniuses studying physics are men, the only one exception is to that one geeky crazy lady, who if we are being honest, is not someone kids are going to aspire to be. There are so many subconscious stereotypes around us when we are growing up, we don't really how much they effect us, but look back at the kids TV shows u would watch, even from that early, they mainly include the geeky maths guy, the dumb blonde, the football jockey (male)... there are exceptions to this, but most of them fit stereotypes. I'm using media as I study it and it's the easiest way to reflect the point I'm making.
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    (Original post by AKB2000)
    Mind reader? It's common sense, if everything around kids growing up is stereotypes, we will continue building a stereotypical society. Just as an example, Big Bang theory, the main characters that are geniuses studying physics are men, the only one exception is to that one geeky crazy lady, who if we are being honest, is not someone kids are going to aspire to be. There are so many subconscious stereotypes around us when we are growing up, we don't really how much they effect us, but look back at the kids TV shows u would watch, even from that early, they mainly include the geeky maths guy, the dumb blonde, the football jockey (male)... there are exceptions to this, but most of them fit stereotypes. I'm using media as I study it and it's the easiest way to reflect the point I'm making.
    Amy is a neurobiologist not a physicist.

    (And the only actor who is also a scientist off screen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayim_Bialik )
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Women:

    - Live longer.
    - Receive more charity.
    - Are less likely to be homeless.
    - Are less likely to commit suicide.
    - Are less likely to be a victim of murder or a violent crime.
    - Get significantly less jail time for the same crimes.
    - Have more money spent on their health and safety.
    - Get a huge amount of public support and recognition of their "issues."
    - Are considered oppressed and underprivileged despite all this because there are too few female high-earners and their great-great-grandmothers didn't get the vote until shortly after all men got the vote.

    So no, I suppose men and women aren't very equal.
    Sexual assault is conisdered a violent crime.

    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    How on Earth can you interview a mathematical parameter? I was not talking about average people, but about qualities of populations on average. I've adressed that so many times I though it should be obvious.



    Neuhaus would not agreed with you, but whatever. It was just an example. Most of kids I knew were crappy in maths too, and their parents usually were doing nothing about it.



    I just don't have time for it. I'm only discussing arguments which appear to be nonsense.
    And yes, I'm not a genius. According to tests, I have only above the average intelligence.


    No, it's just my experience. Sounds like you can't or do not wish to see the difference between all and many.
    And there are many terrible feminists. Just look at this tweets, it's disgusting.
    https://youtu.be/g2QILeh2KYs?t=1m20s

    And before you start: "Men tell disgusting sexist jokes", I don't and don't expect me to admire someone who imitates the worst role models.


    No. I'm only explaining, why there is so much hatred towards feminism. It has bad image in society, at least partly thanks to some of its own idiot activists, who get a lot of media coverage or run provocations in the internet. I understand it's just a small % of the whole movement, but try explaining it to simplier people. It won't work. I even have female friends who hate feminists, because the movement has made itself a bad image.
    You've missed the point again, and again, and again. In fact every paragraph you seem to be on a different plane to me. This is why psychology needs to be taught at school, you people just don't understand how the mind works. It's odd.


    Justifying a stereotype that you hold as true, whilst denouncing everyone else who holds stereotypes as "simple". I honestly think that's really weak minded.
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    Feminism today is full of hypocrisy, they often rant on about "white male privilege". Most feminists today are a part of the middle class and MORE privileged than the average working class male. (Privilege is based on wealth not Gender in modern day Britain.) Men and Women in Britains society have equality of opportunity and actually, women are gaining better qualifications than men for a number of years now on average.Feminists often fail to realise male issues, for example, Men have higher suicide rates and are more likely to become homeless than Women. Feminists also often fail to highlight the injustices towards women abroad in countries like in Saudi Arabia, but demand equality of outcome in the "gender pay gap".

    Sorry, it is a bit of rant but, hopefully, you will hopefully understand what I'm trying to say.
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    (Original post by folluber)
    Was I encouraged? Encouraged by what? Could social stigma have encouraged me to do physics? You don't know what makes people want to do anything, yet you're so confident that society is conspiring against women to make them not want to do jobs in the stem fields or higher paying fields, (despite having a much higher opportunity to with much better grades in mathematics and physics, and all kinds of schemes generated by the Institute of Physics and education organizations that can guarantee women work placements, internships, etc) rather than just assuming they don't want to do it.

    Let's actually give human beings a bit of respect and accept the choices they make with their freedom. If they make bad ones, let's not blame those choices on social stigma or environmental factors beyond that individuals control and allow them to accept their responsibilities.

    I love how you're a mind reader, who can assert what I think is reasonable or unreasonable.
    By social norms. Like I said previously, when physics is a normal subject for a male, it's easier to conform to that social norm, than it would be to go against it. Women have to actively go against a social norm, it requires more strength to go against than to conform.
    Basic psychology.

    Disagree. Humans are a product of our environment, and with that considered the freedom we hold is very limited. Do not attribute your successes to yourself, you're lucky you had a conducive environment, with a few lucky genes.

    This doesn't just apply to gender, but to class, to race, to everything.

    If you completely reversed social attitudes, beliefs and social norms regarding gender and science, if we existed in a world where the woman was the stereotypical scientist or engineer, not the man, I guarantee you'll see a difference in career choices.
 
 
 
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