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Feminism, are we actually equal? Watch

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    No, women are still superior
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    (Original post by PlainDoll)
    But poverty is much more of black or white, you're either poor or you're not. Feminism is much more of a grey area as there are subjects where women are worse off, but also areas where men are worse off. Its up to way more discussion that the matter of poverty.

    Poverty is not black and white at all. It's definition varies greatly from country to country.
    It's definition varies greatly from context to context. An individual can be deprived on many different levels, in regards to food and basic living conditions, or in regards to education, or socialisation, or even love and support as a child.

    It is as grey as feminism. If it wasn't grey, you'd have been able to have provided me an answer to my question- do you think we should stop targeting poverty in the UK and focus on poorer countries instead?
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    I don't know then. You've raised good points and got me thinking and I'm really not sure what to think.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)

    I think you for some reason believe that I don't understand averages.
    I had 95% in my stats modules at uni so do not patronise me.
    .
    You said that people from HR interview averages, how was I supposed to interpret that otherwise? Good marks at university don't guarantee anything yet. Calculating averages is a primary school skill, yet many people with higher education don't get the idea about them when they have to apply this knowledge outside maths. I've seen such people on the British TV, I've met such people in person. Some had better grades at uni than I had, and what counts as 2:1 in UK, in Poland often counts as failed, and not so long ago it always counted as failed.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)

    I think you for some reason believe that I don't understand averages.
    (...)
    It is an automatic cognitive response. Heuristics.
    Here lies the misunderstanding.
    I didn't say that stereotypical thinking does not exist in our minds. I only said that a human who understand averages, will not rely upon the stereotype. Or do you say, that humans cannot ignore these heuristics on the conscious level, even though it appears it's something that educated people do on a daily basis?
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    You said that people from HR interview averages, how was I supposed to interpret that otherwise? Good marks at university don't guarantee anything yet. Calculating averages is a primary school skill, yet many people with higher education don't get the idea about them when they have to apply this knowledge outside maths. I've seen such people on the British TV, I've met such people in person. Some had better grades at uni than I had, and what counts as 2:1 in UK, in Poland often counts as failed, and not so long ago it always counted as failed.



    Here lies the misunderstanding.
    I didn't say that stereotypical thinking does not exist in our minds. I only said that a human who understand averages, will not rely upon the stereotype. Or do you say, that humans cannot ignore these heuristics on the conscious level, even though it appears it's something that educated people do on a daily basis?
    Except I never said that.
    I've just looked back and I think wires were crossed, what I meant by "of course they do" was that they interview people of average ability, I think you thought I meant they interview people according to averages. In all fairness I think I initially misinterpreted you with that one.

    You know full well that British academic institutions far exceed Polish ones so I'll leave it at that!

    If you hold that stereotype, you will use it, it is impossible not to.

    The definition of stereotype is-

    "A fixed, over generalized belief about a particular group or class of people."

    You see its entire basis depends on an over-generalisation, placing a certain characteristic onto an individual because of the stereotypical belief.

    What you refer to, the mere acknowledgement of an average characteristic amongst a social group, is not a stereotype. That is reasonable, stereotyping is not.

    Yeah that's what I'm saying, people do it all the time, it's human nature.

    Broadly, there are two forms of attitudes, implicit and explicit, which lead to slightly different kinds of behaviour.

    Explicit are direct, and conscious evaluations of a person which can be based on a stereotype, implict are unconscious, or automatic evaluations.

    An example of an implict attitude in regards to racism would be, say if someone was directly asked whether they thought black people were more violent, they'd say no (explicit), but would be more likely to cross the road if a black man was walking towards them as opposed to a white man.

    It's this sort of unconscious behaviour that we can all be guilty of, even the educated of us aren't invulnerable.

    Although plenty still do hold explicit stereotypical attitudes towards women, such as believing they are worse at Maths.
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    >sees men have way higher suicide rate
    >sees women get hecka money for breast cancer research, while men get tiny amounts for the equally deadly prostate cancer
    >more women go into university than men
    >women are favoured in STEM fields just because they are women

    heck no we aint equal
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You know full well that British academic institutions far exceed Polish ones so I'll leave it at that!
    This does not explain why the very same problem affects the Britons.

    Not to mention that the methodology of rankings such as Shanghai list is biased almost silly, if not strongly biased and silly. They are affected by power of each country's economy, nationality of major scientific magazines, quantity of nations and popularity of language. US, UK and Chinese universities are strongly handicaped in these rankings.
    http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU-...logy-2015.html

    Also, we're speaking of rather basic knowledge, that does not require millions being spent on research facilities, I don't suppose you presume that some European tribes are significantly more stupid than other ones?
    Btw. the gender pay gap in Poland is 7,7%. How big is that in UK. 19%?

    Interesting statistics. Some of the more backward countries, or often better in terms of gender pay gap, than the advanced societies.
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    This does not explain why the very same problem affects the Britons.

    Not to mention that the methodology of rankings such as Shanghai list is biased almost silly, if not strongly biased and silly. They are affected by power of each country's economy, nationality of major scientific magazines, quantity of nations and popularity of language. US, UK and Chinese universities are strongly handicaped in these rankings.
    http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU-...logy-2015.html

    Also, we're speaking of rather basic knowledge, that does not require millions being spent on research facilities, I don't suppose you presume that some European tribes are significantly more stupid than other ones?
    Btw. the gender pay gap in Poland is 7,7%. How big is that in UK. 19%?

    Interesting statistics. Some of the more backward countries, or often better in terms of gender pay gap, than the advanced societies.

    The gender pay gap is lower in Poland because everyone receives piss poor pay compared to other EU countries. That's not due to equality but leftover from communism, and various other political reasons that you're obviously aware of.

    Be careful about how you interpret statistics.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    The gender pay gap is lower in Poland because everyone receives piss poor pay compared to other EU countries. That's not due to equality but leftover from communism, and various other political reasons that you're obviously aware of.
    Estonia, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Hungary disprove the diagnosis of the leftover from communism.
    The equality exists though, despite the fact that women here rarely pick STEM careers.

    I don't know if this is relevant now, but in the XVIII century, Poland was recognized by it's neighbours (exaggeratedly), as a country where men have no respect or significance.

    I don't see political reasons for which payment equality is much better in Poland than in UK, or in other post-communist countries.
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    Estonia, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Hungary disprove the diagnosis of the leftover from communism.
    The equality exists though, despite the fact that women here rarely pick STEM careers.

    I don't know if this is relevant now, but in the XVIII century, Poland was recognized by it's neighbours (exaggeratedly), as a country where men have no respect or significance.

    I don't see political reasons for which payment equality is much better in Poland than in UK, or in other post-communist countries.
    Yeah but doesn't stop there being a leftover hardship does there? Of course they'd disapprove of it. If women rarely pick STEM careers then that is not equality.

    Like I said, when the income is so low as a whole, there's less room for difference. That is why there is a lower wage gap, there's less variation in income fill stop.

    I didn't say political reasons for pay equality in Poland, I said political reasons for the low income in general...
    A low wage gap is a direct function of low wages as a whole.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Like I said, when the income is so low as a whole, there's less room for difference. That is why there is a lower wage gap, there's less variation in income fill stop.

    I didn't say political reasons for pay equality in Poland, I said political reasons for the low income in general...
    A low wage gap is a direct function of low wages as a whole.
    Then you don't seem to have a slightest idea about wages in all of those countries.

    (Original post by Twinpeaks)

    Like I said, when the income is so low as a whole, there's less room for difference.
    This is completely rubbish. I'm sure it looked well as a part of larger, overgeneralised theory with chery picked evidence to support it, but it doesn't work.
    Poles have significantly bigger incomes than Slovaks, Romanians or Bulgarians, much more bigger than Hungarians and at a level similar to Czech Republic. This is in terms of average wages. Perhaps the dominant would change something, but as the economies of these are quite similar, it's not likely. Also, in Ukraine incomes are much lower than in Poland, and gender pay gap is at 41%. In Russia it's at 4%, but in Georgia or Armenia, again it's 24% and 36%.
    India- average wages 12.5 times lower than in Poland. Gender pay gap: 25%. But let's come back to Europe and to our list: average wages in Poland and Estonia are exactly the same. And the gender pay gaps are so very different.
    Amount of income has very little to do with gender pay gap.
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    (Original post by slade p)
    Feminism is a scourge to society, feminism is not about equality but rather about giving women priviledges and specifically advancing their positions in the fields that they desire. Also feminism perpetuates invalid views, accusations and narrative about men because of their anti male mentality and agenda. The pay gap is absolute b.s, which proves among the other lies which they perpetuate that feminists are deliberately making false assertions which have no substance in order to justify policies that they want which advance women and disadvantage men. They are constantly demanding that women be placed in the main role of series and films even in roles where the character was meant to be a man, feminists are absolutely vile because of this.
    Genuine question: are you angry about the new Doctor being a woman?
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    (Original post by Burnheal131)
    Honestly, who even thinks that?

    If you want to have use a ridiculous example then there are plenty of examples showing inequality against men. For instance, when a guy makes fun of a woman's body it is called body-shaming, but when you have a girl making fun of Andrew in accounts for his weight then it is just a joke.
    Awww, there there Andrew, you just let those meanies talk.
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    You said that people from HR interview averages, how was I supposed to interpret that otherwise? Good marks at university don't guarantee anything yet. Calculating averages is a primary school skill, yet many people with higher education don't get the idea about them when they have to apply this knowledge outside maths. I've seen such people on the British TV, I've met such people in person. Some had better grades at uni than I had, and what counts as 2:1 in UK, in Poland often counts as failed, and not so long ago it always counted as failed.



    Here lies the misunderstanding.
    I didn't say that stereotypical thinking does not exist in our minds. I only said that a human who understand averages, will not rely upon the stereotype. Or do you say, that humans cannot ignore these heuristics on the conscious level, even though it appears it's something that educated people do on a daily basis?
    Upbringing.

    http://www.newsweek.com/gender-neutr...-school-617413

    "The Uppsala study showed that although students at gender-neutral schools do notice others' gender, they are less likely to stereotype based on it."
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Upbringing.

    http://www.newsweek.com/gender-neutr...-school-617413

    "The Uppsala study showed that although students at gender-neutral schools do notice others' gender, they are less likely to stereotype based on it."
    I feel you see my views in a way I would not like to see them perceived, since you attached the article particularly to my statement.
    The article presents a probably good way to get rid of unnecessary stereotypes. Such experiments should be made in other countries also, Sweden is very different to the rest of Europe in many areas, and it would be nice to see how such approach in education will effect in different societies.
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    (Original post by PTMalewski)
    I feel you see my views in a way I would not like to see them perceived, since you attached the article particularly to my statement.
    The article presents a probably good way to get rid of unnecessary stereotypes. Such experiments should be made in other countries also, Sweden is very different to the rest of Europe in many areas, and it would be nice to see how such approach in education will effect in different societies.
    Well you asked why even educated people hold stereotypical views on gender, and (to me) that implied that those were inherent to humanity and we can never get rid of them and it's silly to try.

    And yes, quite right, it would be great if other countries could follow suit.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Well you asked why even educated people hold stereotypical views on gender, and (to me) that implied that those were inherent to humanity and we can never get rid of them and it's silly to try.
    No, no,no... I meant the problem with stereotypes in many cases can be solved using approach which will work not only on stereotypes.
    You don't have to change someone's stereotypes on populations, if you want to change his behavior towards individuals, at least on some particular occasions like job interview. It should be easier to make one aware what averages actually mean, and this is useful also in other cases. While stereotypes, yes, would be easier to get rid of through education of the new generations. That's what I keep saying: allow children to develop, not only girls, but children in general. Like in the schools from the article- let children play and learn various things.
    Also, do not enforce anyone to believe or do something, because it may not work, or actually become counterproductive.
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    (Original post by OliviaRose98!)
    Genuine question: are you angry about the new Doctor being a woman?
    Yes i am angry at the new doctor who being a woman because of feminists pushing their feminist agenda by giving the key roles to women in series's/films to advance women's position and to further spread their vile feminist narrative.
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    (Original post by slade p)
    Yes i am angry at the new doctor who being a woman because of feminists pushing their feminist agenda by giving the key roles to women in series's/films to advance women's position and to further spread their vile feminist narrative.
    See this is what I don't understand. By the Judge of this comment you would think women are taking over TV shows but really many men keep the main roles and why are you so angry about women having a key role? The doctor is a fictional character and he regenerates therefore he hasn't got a specific gender, I would understand if he was a historical character so you would have to be accurate in the gender. I think we should give her a chance she is a good actress, and when the time comes judge her as an individual, on whether she's a good doctor rather than her being a woman.
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    (Original post by OliviaRose98!)
    The doctor is a fictional character and he regenerates therefore he hasn't got a specific gender, I would understand if he was a historical character so you would have to be accurate in the gender.
    I take it, that you would have nothing against James Bond being a black muslim transgender female speaking with French accent?
 
 
 
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