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Britain to ban sale of all new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2040 Watch

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    (Original post by Jahir)
    Nooo. This wont satisfy me. Where's the pops and bangs?
    You could make some dosh developing an app for *that*. There's bound to be some others that like unburnt fuel exploding...
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    (Original post by BTAnonymous)
    we would already be using electric or hydrogen cars now if the government didnt brown-nose the big oil companies as much; the electric car has been around for over a century.
    we just wouldn't I'm sorry

    Not only is the typical range of a consumer electric car 70 miles, but they also take hours to charge fully. What's that? They fast charge a majority in 30mins? You're still stood there waiting for 30 minutes. At least with start stop tech, when a petrol car isn't moving (in traffic), no fuel is being used - unlike the issues caused by battery anxiety - ive been there, sat in a leaf, in the dark, cold and rain, sat in stationary traffic watching the battery drop to 6%.

    Not to mention the weight of the batteries destroys a cars handling, and the disposal of the batteries is toxic - not to mention actually making the damn things. I think an autoexpress investigation found that the manufacturing and use of a prius did more damage to the planet long term than a range rover

    The other issue is with the national grid - we already use 96.5% of what we produce, and producing more isn't an easy thing to do - the cheapest thing is to burn more oil, burn more coal or burn more gas - actually doing even more damage.

    I agree that electric or part hybrid is the way forward - take the i3 as a great example - but true electric cars will not happen on a large scale for a least 2 decades, until battery tech can be solved
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    we just wouldn't I'm sorry

    Not only is the typical range of a consumer electric car 70 miles, but they also take hours to charge fully. What's that? They fast charge a majority in 30mins? You're still stood there waiting for 30 minutes. At least with start stop tech, when a petrol car isn't moving (in traffic), no fuel is being used - unlike the issues caused by battery anxiety - ive been there, sat in a leaf, in the dark, cold and rain, sat in stationary traffic watching the battery drop to 6%.

    Not to mention the weight of the batteries destroys a cars handling, and the disposal of the batteries is toxic - not to mention actually making the damn things. I think an autoexpress investigation found that the manufacturing and use of a prius did more damage to the planet long term than a range rover

    The other issue is with the national grid - we already use 96.5% of what we produce, and producing more isn't an easy thing to do - the cheapest thing is to burn more oil, burn more coal or burn more gas - actually doing even more damage.

    I agree that electric or part hybrid is the way forward - take the i3 as a great example - but true electric cars will not happen on a large scale for a least 2 decades, until battery tech can be solved
    I think we would though.

    Look back 40 years and tell me how technology, as a whole has advanced. Take video games for example. We've come from a two white rectangles and a white ball (ping pong) to full HD augmented virtual reality.

    So why has the standard car model not changed much? Granted, aesthetics, engines, efficiency has certainly been advanced but still using traditional combustion engines.

    So what could we have done in 40 years of the electric car? I think we could charge an electric car in the same time it takes to fuel a hydrocarbon based car, I think electric cars would meet the amount of miles a hydrocarbon based car can do and I'm sure we would find a way to prevent energy use while stationary (we already have that in current fueled cars so why can't we do that in electric?).

    all these problems can be solved by engineering but there's simply not enough interest and funding from the government in not only engineering but STEM as a whole, despite being a lead country in research.
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    (Original post by BTAnonymous)
    I think we would though.

    Look back 40 years and tell me how technology, as a whole has advanced. Take video games for example. We've come from a two white rectangles and a white ball (ping pong) to full HD augmented virtual reality.

    So why has the standard car model not changed much? Granted, aesthetics, engines, efficiency has certainly been advanced but still using traditional combustion engines.

    So what could we have done in 40 years of the electric car? I think we could charge an electric car in the same time it takes to fuel a hydrocarbon based car, I think electric cars would meet the amount of miles a hydrocarbon based car can do and I'm sure we would find a way to prevent energy use while stationary (we already have that in current fueled cars so why can't we do that in electric?).

    all these problems can be solved by engineering but there's simply not enough interest and funding from the government in not only engineering but STEM as a whole, despite being a lead country in research.
    I agree that tech moves at an astonishing rate, but the big four manufacturers have all come out and said they cannot see any way at the moment of improving battery efficiency, charging rate etc

    Unfortunately its all wishful thinking - if BMW/JLR/VAG could have produced a feasible electric option that could actaully replace a petrol car, you can be sure they would have.

    i would agree that not enough investment is put into the STEM field, but its not as simple as 'give it some more money, we'll get some kind of result'.

    I notice that the ban affects petrol and diesel only engines - not hybrid's. this means that cars are already being produced that fit this description, eg 530e, C220e VW GTE.... this is how the manufacturers will adapt, but you will not see, probably by the end our our livetimes, a total switch to electric cars.
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    I agree that tech moves at an astonishing rate, but the big four manufacturers have all come out and said they cannot see any way at the moment of improving battery efficiency, charging rate etc

    Unfortunately its all wishful thinking - if BMW/JLR/VAG could have produced a feasible electric option that could actaully replace a petrol car, you can be sure they would have.

    i would agree that not enough investment is put into the STEM field, but its not as simple as 'give it some more money, we'll get some kind of result'.

    I notice that the ban affects petrol and diesel only engines - not hybrid's. this means that cars are already being produced that fit this description, eg 530e, C220e VW GTE.... this is how the manufacturers will adapt, but you will not see, probably by the end our our livetimes, a total switch to electric cars.
    Ok I agree with that

    What about the big oil companies though? do you not think they have had a substantial impact on the development of electric cars because they're afraid of losing market?
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    Yeah they probably have, but i don't think that's hugely down to electric cars -

    ultimately, global demand still goes up. all of them together make it worse for eachother..... the middle east's efforts to maximise revenue caused the us and uk to explore fracking, the us making it a success. However, as the us begin to feed the market, the supply goes up, and the law of supply says the oil price falls. The OPEC's continually reducing the price caused barrel prices to freefall, meaning the US had to mothball production, causing the price to stabilise. The price won't rise that much now, becuase if it does, the US starts production and the price falls again they're a victim of their own greed, success and hostility

    I didn't mean to summise the recent history of the oil industry, it's far from accurate

    What I'm saying is I think you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who sympathises with the oil producers aha
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    (Original post by Rock Fan)
    Not sure about this move then again I feel climate change is just a myth
    Wow...
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    Currently "road tax" (not officially called that) is based on emissions. I wonder what ******** parameters the government will come up with to tax electric cars.
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    (Original post by Mr Smurf)
    Currently "road tax" (not officially called that) is based on emissions. I wonder what ******** parameters the government will come up with to tax electric cars.
    probably be a universal 'road use' tax - there will still be emissions though, you'll still have petrol emissions with the hybrids that are allowed to be sold
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    I agree that tech moves at an astonishing rate, but the big four manufacturers have all come out and said they cannot see any way at the moment of improving battery efficiency, charging rate etc

    Unfortunately its all wishful thinking - if BMW/JLR/VAG could have produced a feasible electric option that could actaully replace a petrol car, you can be sure they would have.

    i would agree that not enough investment is put into the STEM field, but its not as simple as 'give it some more money, we'll get some kind of result'.

    I notice that the ban affects petrol and diesel only engines - not hybrid's. this means that cars are already being produced that fit this description, eg 530e, C220e VW GTE.... this is how the manufacturers will adapt, but you will not see, probably by the end our our livetimes, a total switch to electric cars.
    The problem has always been no mainstream appetite for changing from a supremely dominant technology to an alternative that gives significantly inferior performance, is still to reach maturity, is far more expensive to produce and has no clear benefits apart from the perceived 'green' credentials.

    But the writing is definitely on the wall and serious money is now being pumped into development. Tesla and others are clearly working towards disruptive battery technologies, having acquired a slew of patents and swallowing up innovative technology start-ups. Others all over the world are following suit.

    There are very promising technologies which are now starting to enter the risk-reduction phase including lithium-superoxide, graphene-polymer and others.

    As research picks up pace, I suspect a breakthrough technology will create a similar effect to Moore's law with a doubling on power to mass density every few years.

    As long as the returns on investment are demonstrable and demand accelerates by giving the public a push, EV will leapfrog hybrid. The car manufacturers and governments are creating that demand by stamping a 'use by' date on hydrocarbon engines.

    What was the saying? "if you can build it, they will come."
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    probably be a universal 'road use' tax - there will still be emissions though, you'll still have petrol emissions with the hybrids that are allowed to be sold
    The ban includes hybrids. Of course cars with emissions will still be on the used car market for many years to come.
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    (Original post by uberteknik)
    The problem has always been no mainstream appetite for changing from a supremely dominant technology to an alternative that gives significantly inferior performance, is still to reach maturity, is far more expensive to produce and has no clear benefits apart from the perceived 'green' credentials.

    But the writing is definitely on the wall and serious money is now being pumped into development. Tesla and others are clearly working towards disruptive battery technologies, having acquired a slew of patents and swallowing up innovative technology start-ups. Others all over the world are following suit.

    There are very promising technologies which are now starting to enter the risk-reduction phase including lithium-superoxide, graphene-polymer and others.

    As research picks up pace, I suspect a breakthrough technology will create a similar effect to Moore's law with a doubling on power to mass density every few years.

    As long as the returns on investment are demonstrable and demand accelerates by giving the public a push, EV will leapfrog hybrid. The car manufacturers and governments are creating that demand by stamping a 'use by' date on hydrocarbon engines.

    What was the saying? "if you can build it, they will come."
    you've got a point, but i think you're flawed on two counts


    1. you assume that manufacturers will choose the right path and develop EV tech, instead of the easier and cheaper path, which is doing what they're already doing. We'll ignore the fact that despite it's huge successes, TESLA has reported over 16 straight quarter losses - losing 330mill in the first 3 months of the year. You already have combustion engine cars from BMW, VW that would comply after 2040.

    2. I agree that tech normally produces the answer, but you cannot expect to chuck money at the problem and for it to produce results. You never know, we might actually see a resurgence in fuel cells or a completely new tech..
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    (Original post by Mr Smurf)
    The ban includes hybrids. Of course cars with emissions will still be on the used car market for many years to come.
    ah it doesn't. The ban specifically excludes hybrids.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...diesel-car-ban

    'Of course cars with emissions will still be on the used car market for many years to come' - exactly. which is why the ban is more for headlines than actual impacts
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    (Original post by uberteknik)
    "if you can build it, they will come."
    What is that, the motto of Cumbernauld New Town?
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    ah it doesn't. The ban specifically excludes hybrids.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...diesel-car-ban

    'Of course cars with emissions will still be on the used car market for many years to come' - exactly. which is why the ban is more for headlines than actual impacts
    Guardian and FT saying hybrids are included in the ban. :dontknow:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...vans-from-2040

    https://www.ft.com/content/7e61d3ae-...f-99f383b09ff9
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    Fair enough, cant see the FT article but a number of other motoring journalists are reporting the same as autocar - given the industry, I'd be inclined to believe them over the guardian, seeing as they were published this afternoon as well.

    I just don't see it posible to enforce an entire ban by 2040 - the infrastructure just isn't there, not to mention how deeply engrained oil companies are in politics - doing away with petrol completely would remove a large amount of funding, and given some of the major donors to the conservatives are shell, bp and texaco, i can't see this happening
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    Fair enough, cant see the FT article but a number of other motoring journalists are reporting the same as autocar - given the industry, I'd be inclined to believe them over the guardian, seeing as they were published this afternoon as well.

    I just don't see it posible to enforce an entire ban by 2040 - the infrastructure just isn't there, not to mention how deeply engrained oil companies are in politics - doing away with petrol completely would remove a large amount of funding, and given some of the major donors to the conservatives are shell, bp and texaco, i can't see this happening
    "The UK was the first country in the world to announce in 2011 our intention that conventional car and van sales would end by 2040, and for almost every car and van on the road to be a zero emission vehicle by 2050"

    See para 3

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...n-overview.pdf
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    "The UK was the first country in the world to announce in 2011 our intention that conventional car and van sales would end by 2040, and for almost every car and van on the road to be a zero emission vehicle by 2050"

    See para 3

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...n-overview.pdf
    useful resource, will actually use that in my next climate change essay lol

    as said before, it does say intention, rather than promise/will happen etc

    as we've seen from recent interviews from JC, intentions and actaully doing anything are a long way apart

    also 'for almost' - open to interpretation imho -
    very good point though
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    (Original post by brimstone131)
    useful resource, will actually use that in my next climate change essay lol

    as said before, it does say intention, rather than promise/will happen etc
    I think the chances of Theresa doing a Walpole and still being in office in 2040 are pretty remote and the chances she won't have smashed a chair over Grayling's head remoter still.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think the chances of Theresa doing a Walpole and still being in office in 2040 are pretty remote and the chances she won't have smashed a chair over Grayling's head remoter still.
    aha of course - I wouldn't be surprised if we had a complete cycle of labour then conservative by then aha

    of course a labour govt have every right to shelve these plans, orchange them to their heart's content
 
 
 
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