Learning about Islam

why create people at all ?

best

Why does the universe exist?

Many Muslims who have studied biology beyond school and pretty much all who work in the field in a professional capacity accept the overwhelming scientific consensus on evolution, just as most accept the overwhelming scientific consensus in physics, chemistry, geology and so on. What do you see as the main obstacle for those who do not?

Also, instead of trying to poke (imaginary) holes in religious theories and beliefs, why don't you come up with something original to explain why humans exist?

I'm sure you can do better than "I don't know" 😂

why create people at all ?

best

Hi mariachi

Answer:

The same could be asked about many things. Ultimately, Allah creates, and had He not created mankind or the universe, neither would be existent.

Narrowing it down, the creation of man is the bringing into existence of a species that has the capability to to think on a higher level, to pursue goals and achieve accomplishments, to interact with its fellow creation by way of thought and determination and ultimately to either seek its Creator (thereby learning to transcend beyond materialistic pursuits and carnal desires, as well as acknowledging the Creator and His works and being cautious of our decisions in daily life) or live life without doing so.

Hi

Answer:

I don't agree that this is the case. As has been mentioned on the thread, certain elements of Evolution are not denied by the majority, yet there are other parts that are often not agreed upon.

This isn't set up as a debate thread, so I'll suffice with replying to this generally, without any discussion on the separate points.

Regarding the average person, Evolution is an idea that isn't free from speculation and one that is then used to denounce various faiths and ways of life.
The extrapolation of an observable process (microevolution), to speculation based on incomplete data (all living things descend from one original life form, e.g. humans and chihuahuas have the same ancestor), to the denunciation of religions and denying any possibility for the existence of a Creator. (I'm not saying that this is your view, but rather it is the view of some figures who have gained popularity in this discussion of Evolution and religion - such as Dawkins and Hitchens.) This, the attack against theism, is a big reason for its rejection (or rather, its incomplete acceptance).

For the better acquainted, they are in a position to not take everything from Evolution as 'Godspeak' (excuse the pun ) and look at it considering the more particular details (without blindly accepting it and everything that it proposes and denying possibility of any substantial criticism). They will consider things such as similarities not necessarily proving common descent, the overall incompleteness of the fossil record, the predicament of events such as the Cambrian explosion, the existence of innate behaviours, the lack of (true) transitional species or organs that are part-way through developing, whether at present or historically, and the improbability of an underdeveloped organ or system being sustained through millenia in light of Evolution's proposal that beneficial traits define development (natural selection).

Humans have been created to emulate God, and should try to emulate his qualities and attributes

Hi ash : we both know that this is not the place for extended dialogue

so I will limit myself to recording that your answer is very unsatisfactory. Below the elaborate language, there is nothing: no clear reason for creating the Universe and humankind

Best

Thanks. As you say, I am not interested in a debate about evolutionary theory. What you suggest as the "substantial criticism" of the "better acquainted" such as your claimed "lack of true transitional species" or alleged "incompleteness of the fossil record", are challenges that have been put to bed a long time ago. No-one with a serious interest in the field believes these are viable objections.

I can see that the conflation of evolution with anti-theism may be a problem in societies where it is difficult to profess views contrary to a theistic orthodoxy. This is why it is not always helpful to identify acceptance of evolution with atheism - there are many, many theists who do not see them as incompatible.

I suppose what I am most interested in is from where "ordinary" Muslims take their lead on matters like this, where they cannot be expected to be familiar with the technical details. For example, Catholics have a clear central authority (even if it tends to lag behind social reality), but this isn't the case in Islam, is it? What are the mechanisms through which Muslims are be able to accommodate new scientific understandings? What would convince you to say that you accept the truth of evolution by natural selection? Why would you not be convinced by distinguished, religious, scientists such as Rana Dajani or Ehab Abouheif?

Follow-up answer:

Regarding the 'ordinary Muslims', they would most likely base their conclusion on the following:

- Is it against religion and contradicting the belief in God?
- Is there any direct contradiction between the proposed idea and the explicit statements of God and Prophet?
- What is the collective view of scholars well acquainted with the Islamic scripture/texts, assessing the proposed idea in light of these? What are the reasons given for these conclusions?

in the case of Ahmadi Muslims, we follow teachings from our leaders (the Caliphs of Ahmadiyyat).

this is another advantage of being an ahmadi - unlike other Muslims, we have a global leader.

in the case of Ahmadi Muslims, we follow teachings from our leaders (the Caliphs of Ahmadiyyat).

this is another advantage of being an ahmadi - unlike other Muslims, we have a global leader.

Hi mariachi

Answer:

The same could be asked about many things. Ultimately, Allah creates, and had He not created mankind or the universe, neither would be existent.

Narrowing it down, the creation of man is the bringing into existence of a species that has the capability to to think on a higher level, to pursue goals and achieve accomplishments, to interact with its fellow creation by way of thought and determination and ultimately to either seek its Creator (thereby learning to transcend beyond materialistic pursuits and carnal desires, as well as acknowledging the Creator and His works and being cautious of our decisions in daily life) or live life without doing so.

Yes, but why? Does Allah need to create beings to acknowledge him or did he do all of this just for the fun of it?

What’s the fate of unbelievers under Islam.

A. Unbelievers are mainly of 3 types:

1. Those who hear the message of Islam, see or hear their proofs and choose to reject it.

2. Those who appear to accept Islam on the surface and present themselves as Muslim but conspire to undermine or corrupt Islam or the Muslims.

3. Those who did not know or hear the message of Islam properly.

Type (1) go to Hell has they have rejected God and His message outright. Their good deeds are nullified and therefore it does not matter if they were charitable or kind to their neighbour - they did not give God His rights (to be worshipped and obeyed).

Type (2) go to Hell and have the most severe punishment. They are like the above but they are worse in that they tried to destroy the religion of God from within, so they are the worst of people.

Type (3) is up to God. No one knows definitively what will happen to them - some are of the opinion that God will give them a test on the Day of Judgement as to whether they will submit or reject God. I am of the opinion that they may be judged according to whatever guidance they had received in life with regards to accepting monotheism and good moral conduct, but Allah knows best.