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The Ultimate Harry Potter Discussion thread ***including Book 6 Spoilers*** watch

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    Didnt they capture a load of death eaters at the end of OOTP - be interesting to see what happens to them now with no azkaban and so on. Perhaps theyll lock them in Hogwarts - it is the safest place after all .
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    Talking of Deatheaters, I know I've said this before, but there are lots of new people now so I'll suggest it again; what do people think about Umbridge becomming a deatheater? I can really see it happening, she certainly has the propensity for it.
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    (Original post by Egan1)
    Talking of Deatheaters, I know I've said this before, but there are lots of new people now so I'll suggest it again; what do people think about Umbridge becomming a deatheater? I can really see it happening, she certainly has the propensity for it.
    Nar, she spent to much time in the last book convicing everyone that it was just a rumour. Shes devoted to the MoM.
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    (Original post by October Project)
    Well I'm no Lord of the Rings fan (I've seen the third film, after being dragged in there by my friend. I spent the whole time asking "Who's that?" and "Why are they going there?" much to the annoyance of the mass of 40 year old men who were in the cinema) so I won't comment on the whole HP vs LOTR dicussion. But about Harry dying, I really can't see the most famous hero of this century being killed off. I know JK said she didn't originally aim these books at children, but they obviously are mostly for children. For her to kill off the main character...it would be too morbid and depressing. Children as young as 7 read these books, and JK is fully aware of that fact, so I don't think she'll do that to them.

    There's also the whole "What happens next?" problem. If he doesn't die people will wonder if he got to be an Auror, where he'll live etc etc. But think of all the books and book series you've read which have ended happily, without explaining all which happens in the future years after the books. Yeah we'll be curious, but it has to end somewhere, and why not happily? Anyway, JK could easily let us know that Harry is accepted into Auror training and takes over the rights to his parents house in Book 7...you just don't know.

    And anyway, if he did die, that would leave more pressing questions without answers: how would Ron and Hermione cope? (if they survived, of coure. Im betting Ron will die. HEHEHE.) Will that mean Voldemort will be free to, you know, be mean to the world 'n stuff?

    And I'm just going to throw in who I think is going to die, either in HBP or Book 7, and why:

    Ron: One of the trio has to die, and Hermione dying wouldn't have as much of an impact on the series as Ron's death would; Ron has a huge family, all who are close to Harry, Ron is the "best" friend etc. Hermione's family hasn't played a part and she's too smart to die, anyway. She has a lot ahead of her...but what can you really see in the future for Ron? I can imagine him dying to save Harry from an Avada Kedavra from a Death Eater. He'd be remembered forever after death, and will have done something so worthwhile that he'll finally be as good as his brothers.

    Lupin: I'm sure you've all read the stuff about Werewolves being killed by silver. Peter was given a silver hand in GoF...yeah, it all points to Lupin dying. I think all the Marauders have to die, and this is how Lupin will. It would be fitting, as Peter has caused the death of the other two Marauders, now only Lupin is left.

    Fred or George: One twin dying? Woah. How good would that be to read?

    Dumbledore: He's hiding something HUGE, I just know it. It's far too suspicious how he just "happened" to be away during PS when Harry needed him. The fact that he turns up just in time at the end of each book to save Harry's ass...it's far too strange. He's going to reveal all, and then be killed by Voldemort. I don't really have any solid reason for this, I just think it'll happen. Harry will have to face Voldemort alone (my bet is that the final battle will be in Hogwarts) so Dumbledore will have to be out of the picture.
    Very well- written, and a lot of good points you make. Just generally picking up on what a lot of people have been saying. I am actually the biggest fan of the books ever! You could be right about ron, but i dont necessarily think him dying would have any more impact than hermione; any one of those two dying would be terrible, and i dont think jk would do it. She might kill off one of the weasle clan though, bill, charley, the twins. She wont do ginny; shes already been possesed. I think neville has a bigger part to all this than we know, and i also agree that dumbledore is hiding something. Apparantly, thousands of pounds were being put on bets that dumbledore will die in the next book, just when the books were being printed. It was in the area where they were being printed too...

    There is also the issue of voldemort dying. JK said herself that instead of asking why he didnt die after the rebound, we should be asking what he has done to ensure he wont die. I think voldemort might have allowed himself to be kissed by a dementor, so he doesnt have a soul, so he cant die??but i dunno.To just kill voldemort or harry wont satisfy, and we all know how extremely clever jk is. And for the guy who said theyre childrens books- theyre more for adults than kids, believe me!
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    Your latter points on Voldemort are very revealing – I hadn’t thought of that, made my hair stand on end, really could mean that it is Harry who will die.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    There is also the issue of voldemort dying. JK said herself that instead of asking why he didnt die after the rebound, we should be asking what he has done to ensure he wont die. I think voldemort might have allowed himself to be kissed by a dementor, so he doesnt have a soul, so he cant die??
    That's an idea I haven't heard before! Although, I don't think it happened. Voldemort took the precautions before going to Godric's Hollow to kill Harry, hence the reason he wasn't killed by the rebounding Avada Kedavra. But we've already heard that a Dementor's Kiss leaves you like an empty shell, without any sense of self, time, memory or feeling; you're just a shell. If Voldemort had allowed a Dementor to take his soul, he wouldn't have been able to feel the hatred and anger required to preform an Avada Kedavra spell. Like Bellatrix said in OotP, you need to be overwhelmed with hate and really mean it when you preform the spell. Without a soul, Voldemort wouldn't have been able to feel anything, let alone overwhelming hatred.

    There is the possibility of course that he preformed some sort of spell that allowed him to keep everything except his ability to die. But then that questions the purpose of a soul. And Voldemort went to the bother of taking Unicorn blood in PS, to keep himself from death, which means that he was weak and afriad of dying, and needed to make sure he would stay alive, which means he couldn't have been incapable of dying at that stage.
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    Thinking about it, I think perhaps that maybe Voldmort is feeding on Harrys strenghth or something (it doesnt actually matter what the protagonist is), but they will have to SEPERATE Harry and Voldy somehow. This will go wrong of course, but itll work out in the end.

    I still think Voldy will die in book 6.
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    (Original post by October Project)
    For her to kill off the main character...it would be too morbid and depressing.
    Two words - "Goodbye Mog"

    :bawling:
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    (Original post by Dude)
    Nar, she spent to much time in the last book convicing everyone that it was just a rumour. Shes devoted to the MoM.
    I’d disagree with that, completely. She spent her time denying it because doing so aided her in her position. I think she’s devoted to power, desires it, and desires the power that will allow her to do what she wants (which includes inflicting pain). If you’ve read Lord of the Flies, I’ve been thinking she’s a bit like Roger, although perhaps more proactive. I can just see her as one of Voldemort’s underlings. She hates Harry, and all the students –it wasn’t just that she was irritated by Harry because he spread the ‘rumours’ (which I believe she probably new were not rumours) I legitimately think she doesn’t like anyone. –She uses people to help her attain more power – Eg Fudge, Marrietta etc and when their use has expired she will cast them aside.

    Perhaps it’s cheesy to have good and evil so black and white but she is not an antihero type character. I think she has just the personality of a deatheater, and a hatred of Harry (and everyone else at Hogwarts) to help her get along with Voldemort’s way of thinking.

    Just think about her actions in the book! I really think it would make sense…


    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    There is also the issue of voldemort dying. JK said herself that instead of asking why he didnt die after the rebound, we should be asking what he has done to ensure he wont die. I think voldemort might have allowed himself to be kissed by a dementor, so he doesnt have a soul, so he cant die??
    As October Project said, it’s an interesting idea, but one that I don’t think follows through. As mentioned, when a soul is sucked out the person becomes an empty shell, - if it wasn’t an empty shell and the personality remained then it would mean that the soul was still there.

    Additional to that, having no soul does not provide immortality. The remaining body/case can still die/be killed.

    (Original post by staylor)
    Thinking about it, I think perhaps that maybe Voldmort is feeding on Harrys strenghth or something (it doesnt actually matter what the protagonist is), but they will have to SEPERATE Harry and Voldy somehow.
    Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Heh, quite simple really and I don’t think it’s been discussed (?!).

    Actually, the more I think about it the more it seems to fit, although of course we’re just speculating.

    But ok- we are told at some point, that when Harry’s parents are killed, that’s the second time they’ve fought Voldemort are we not? What if, during their first encounter, Lily was already pregnant with Harry? One of the spells that Voldemort attacked Lily with was absorbed through the placenta (of just generally ‘got to Harry’) – like when a pregnant woman smokes or inhales dangerous gases her baby/foetus acts sacrificial sponge almost and absorbs the bad toxins –saving the mother. This would explain why 1. Lily escaped the fight with her life (after all- they were up against Voldemort!) and 2. Why there is a connection with Harry and Voldemort in the first place.

    I’m actually really enjoying thinking about this now. Thanks for the mind-prompt Staylor!

    Obviously I haven’t explained everything (like what the spell was in the first place!) but it’s certainly a feasible theory.

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    I did good .

    perhaps (though its allittle far fetched) Voldemort was actually TRYING to get to Harry. Perhaps he had devised a new method for staying alive forever involving stealing the life force of others and Harry was the one he was preparing - he could have purposefully directed spells at him in the womb to make him ready. A side effect could be Harrys strong power.

    Then, when Voldemort came to kill Harry he was not actually going to kill him. He wanted his new life to fuel his own. This would explain his caring only for HArry and not the parents. Unfortunately for him, his spell to take Harrys life and use it for his own (a pre-prepared Avada Kedavra with a side effect?) was rebounded by Harrys loving protection. He Perhaps he started to gain Harrys life force but the love flowed with it (perhaps coming from Harry himself) and he couldnt control it. He was forced to push it back but inadvertently lost some of himself in the procedure and became bonded to Harry.

    Its kind of a silly theory that needs developing but its mine .
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    Well, I’ve just got to the point in book five where they talk to Sirius in the fire. What he says seems to go against my Umbridge=Deatheater theory . ‘I’m sure she’s no deatheater…the world isn’t made up of good people and deatheaters’. >Which is what I was saying before about black and white- but I still think she’s absolutely got the personality for one!

    (Original post by staylor)
    perhaps (though its allittle far fetched) Voldemort was actually TRYING to get to Harry. Perhaps he had devised a new method for staying alive forever involving stealing the life force of others and Harry was the one he was preparing - he could have purposefully directed spells at him in the womb to make him ready. A side effect could be Harrys strong power.
    Hmm…I don’t think that works with what we know. From what has been said in the books, I get the impression Voldemort has no more idea of why Harry was the ‘chosen one’ than we currently do. Which was why I thought maybe if she was pregnant (but in the early stages) then it might make sense, as he wouldn’t have known.

    (Original post by staylor)
    Then, when Voldemort came to kill Harry he was not actually going to kill him. He wanted his new life to fuel his own. This would explain his caring only for HArry and not the parents. Unfortunately for him, his spell to take Harrys life and use it for his own (a pre-prepared Avada Kedavra with a side effect?) was rebounded by Harrys loving protection. He Perhaps he started to gain Harrys life force but the love flowed with it (perhaps coming from Harry himself) and he couldnt control it. He was forced to push it back but inadvertently lost some of himself in the procedure and became bonded to Harry.
    Again, I don’t think this follows through. Voldemort goes after Harry because he heard part of the prophecy. If the prophecy hadn’t occurred I doubt he would have paid any attention to him at all (unless on a family killing spree (like when they killed the Bones)).

    Also, I think even if what you’re suggesting was right- he wouldn’t be using Avada Kedavra. There would doubtless be another spell for whatever he was trying to achieve.
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    (Original post by Xenon)
    I don't want him to die, and think of the outrage of the people reading it if he does.
    I'm thinking most of the nation will go into mourning if she does kill him off.
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    (Original post by Egan1)
    Well, I’ve just got to the point in book five where they talk to Sirius in the fire. What he says seems to go against my Umbridge=Deatheater theory . ‘I’m sure she’s no deatheater…the world isn’t made up of good people and deatheaters’. >Which is what I was saying before about black and white- but I still think she’s absolutely got the personality for one!


    Hmm…I don’t think that works with what we know. From what has been said in the books, I get the impression Voldemort has no more idea of why Harry was the ‘chosen one’ than we currently do. Which was why I thought maybe if she was pregnant (but in the early stages) then it might make sense, as he wouldn’t have known.


    Again, I don’t think this follows through. Voldemort goes after Harry because he heard part of the prophecy. If the prophecy hadn’t occurred I doubt he would have paid any attention to him at all (unless on a family killing spree (like when they killed the Bones)).

    Also, I think even if what you’re suggesting was right- he wouldn’t be using Avada Kedavra. There would doubtless be another spell for whatever he was trying to achieve.
    I know its a silly theory but Im continuing anyway. Perhaps the Avada Kedavra spell was to liberate Harrys spirit from his body but VOldy was supposed to prevent it going further - he probably learnt it from a dementor or something .
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    I very much doubt Umbridge is a deatheater! I was about to quote what Sirius said aswell. It would be daft for JK to make out that the goodies and baddies could be defined on simply how nice they are. I agree she's hooked on power but then so are Fudge and Percy Weasley but it doesn't mean they're all working for Voldermort! Besides, i don't think Umbridge will really be mentioned again in the books except in passing, unless she's the new minister of magic which wouldn't be good!

    As to the prophecy, Trelawney said that the person who could defeat Voldermort would be born to parents who had already escaped Voldermort 3 times (as had Neville's parents). Maybe therefore, there was something about Neville's and Harry's parents in particular that led Voldermort to find them out 3 times (could of course just been when they were working on Order stuff, but i'll run with this) meaning that when Voldermort heard the prophecy and 'marked Harry as his equal' some of the power from Harry's parents transferred to Harry (we already know it was his mother's blood that saved him) and subequently to Voldermort which, combined with his other immortality measures, prevented him from dying. It has been mentioned a few times how clever and talented both Harry and Neville's parents were after all.
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    (Original post by Mrs Rickman)
    I very much doubt Umbridge is a deatheater! I was about to quote what Sirius said aswell. It would be daft for JK to make out that the goodies and baddies could be defined on simply how nice they are. I agree she's hooked on power but then so are Fudge and Percy Weasley but it doesn't mean they're all working for Voldermort!
    Yes, but while Fudge and Percy also desire power and position, they didn't send dementors after Harry, or obviously take pleasure in abusing school children (eg. making Harry self-harm in detentions, hitting Marietta when she wouldn't give the desired information and so on).

    I don't think I'm being overly simplistic. I'm not saying that she will become a deatheater, especially after that quote, however I still think she has the personality for one from what we know of her so far.

    (Original post by Mrs Rickman)
    Besides, i don't think Umbridge will really be mentioned again in the books except in passing, unless she's the new minister of magic which wouldn't be good!
    I highly doubt she'd become minister. I don't think it'd make much sense at all.
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    No i don't either. Hopefully it'll be a nice person!
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    (Original post by Mrs Rickman)
    Maybe therefore, there was something about Neville's and Harry's parents in particular that led Voldermort to find them out 3 times (could of course just been when they were working on Order stuff, but i'll run with this) meaning that when Voldermort heard the prophecy and 'marked Harry as his equal' some of the power from Harry's parents transferred to Harry (we already know it was his mother's blood that saved him) and subequently to Voldermort which, combined with his other immortality measures, prevented him from dying.
    Well he didn't forge the link with harry until the time when he tried to kill him
    So the immortality must have been established before then
    Besides Voldemort says that he took steps "long ago" to prevent himself from dying
    If that was all it was then a) that's not long ago and b) how would the Death Eaters have known?
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    I meant in addition to, but reading it through again now, i can't really make sense of what i was talking about lol.
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    Vold. will NOT die in HBP, and I have voted so in the... thingy... whatever its called at the top of the page.
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    Ah, I'm having so much fun.

    I've spent the last few hours turning one of my friends into Harry Potter on Photoshop Elements, for a birthday card. My masterpiece is now nearing it's completion *evil laugh*. I'm hoping he'll appreciate it :P
 
 
 
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