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Pro Life or Pro Choice? Watch

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    I would like to get a healthy debate started on whether people are pro life or pro choice regarding abortion.

    I ask that everyones opinions are respected and treated with maturity.

    I will kick things off with my opinion, which is by all means flexible and willing to adapt to new information.

    Despite being an atheist, which I feelcis important to highlight, i find myslef being pro life. The question to me seems incredibly simple, are you willing to end a life for merely your own conveniency? I hear two main counter arguments to this. Firstly the argument that its just a ball of tissues and it has no emotions and feelings. I find this the most implausible and horrific logic present. There is a big blur on the way we rationalise this. The matter of fact is this is a potential life. It may not feel, it may not think but give it an extremely short amount of time and it will be. I fail to see under what lense you would fail to accept the fact that just because by UK/US/International Law the 'baby' is not yet declared alive, biologically the baby is alive. This is an outdated mindset that needs strong counterargument.

    Now the second argument. The mothers rights are above that of the babys. I am strongly of the belief that the sob story of im a poor teenage girl who made a mistake and needs this abortion is an easy one to misinterpet. As humans we fail to sympathise with what we do not know/understand. So we find it easier to feel srry for the girls and trick ourselves into allowing ourselves the excuse for abortion. The most sensitive area of this topic is rape. And this is where i admittedly am still not sure what my opinion is. I greatly sympathise with the poor women who have to go through such horrible ordeals. And am in no way demonosing any women for chosing to abort on such circumstances. Yet casting all motions aside i once again find myself leaning towards anti abortion. When you look at the question faced by such an individual it really does come down to, am i willing to sacrifice another life for the mere conviniency of my own life. If people were faced with such a choice but had to witness the murder or carry it out themselves, despite the ordeals they find themselves going through i find it hard many would find themselves capable of doing so. So why is it that we allow ourselves to be tricked into believing what we are doing is ok? I would like to end with what i think is the only situation that abortion is exucable to some extent, and that is when the mothers life is in danger. That is the one time i feel the mothers rights are above that of the baby as its no longer convenience versus life but life versus life. Thank you for reading and feel free to disagree and debate! This topic is not personal to me so i openly admitt that perhaps my point of view may change given circumstances. Yet i try eradicate feelings from my reasoning and look at things logically and consisely. I apolosgise if any offense was caused, i can assure you if it was it was not attended. I look forward to hearing your opinions

    *SORRY FOR POOR GRAMMAR AND PUNCTUATION*
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    Only thing I support is farmers
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    Is it better to live a life of suffering or not to exist at all?
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    I think as a guy theres no need for me to get invovled, I dont plan on having sex with random women so if i did get a girl pregnant we'd likely be in a relationship and as someone who'd love to be a father id want her to keep it - and thats something we'd probably be clear about before getting to such a point.

    If a friend ever came to me for advice id support her getting an abortion but if it was late in the pregnancy idk... you have to make your mind up quickly with these things.
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    (Original post by 2-99)
    Is it better to live a life of suffering or not to exist at all?
    Google the non identity problem
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    (Original post by 2-99)
    Is it better to live a life of suffering or not to exist at all?
    Thanks for the comment. Could you explain what exactly the suffering would be? I am willing to accept it may be a difficult and untraditional life . But would it be any more difficult than the life of some third world children in poorer parts of the world? Are their lives not worth living?
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    I'd rather young women not have their lives ruined by a bunch of dividing cells. I thought we moved past having a bunch of old men dictate what females can and can not do?

    Anyway, too many unwanted kids in the world already, too many parents unable to give their kids a good start cause of the expense and abortion will happen either way- it'll just be at greater risk to the woman
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    Imagine if the baby was sick and had a fatal generic defect that was diagnosed earlier? Personally I wouldn't watch my kid die early
    Imagine the baby is a result of sexual abuse/rape/incest? You shouldn't force her to give birth
    Imagine the pregnancy is dangerous for the mother who will likely die if she gave birth?
    The list goes on and on
    Don't understand how some pro life people say **** like "it's not her body."

    tl;dr Pro-choice because it's the woman's body thx
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    (Original post by Zxyn)
    I think as a guy theres no need for me to get invovled, I dont plan on having sex with random women so if i did get a girl pregnant we'd likely be in a relationship and as someone who'd love to be a father id want her to keep it - and thats something we'd probably be clear about before getting to such a point.

    If a friend ever came to me for advice id support her getting an abortion but if it was late in the pregnancy idk... you have to make your mind up quickly with these things.
    Thanks for your contribution. But do you nlt acknowledge the fact that regardless of whether its a late or early abortion its ending a life? Should you have the choice to end a life purely for convinience? Lets put it this way. If your girlfriend gave birth would you then be ok with just chucking the baby in some bin never to be thought of again? The main point im trying to get across and debate is do you not think that our morals are ourdsted and that essential we have tricked ourselves into thinking something is ok when it isnt like we jave done many times beforr.

    As for you not wanting to get involved due to being a male. I dont want to get to much into the gender issues but i do believe its important for men to acknwoledge , have an opinion on and express their views.
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    (Original post by Econowizard)
    I would like to get a healthy debate started on whether people are pro life or pro choice regarding abortion.

    I ask that everyones opinions are respected and treated with maturity.

    I will kick things off with my opinion, which is by all means flexible and willing to adapt to new information.

    Despite being an atheist, which I feelcis important to highlight, i find myslef being pro life. The question to me seems incredibly simple, are you willing to end a life for merely your own conveniency? I hear two main counter arguments to this. Firstly the argument that its just a ball of tissues and it has no emotions and feelings. I find this the most implausible and horrific logic present. There is a big blur on the way we rationalise this. The matter of fact is this is a potential life. It may not feel, it may not think but give it an extremely short amount of time and it will be. I fail to see under what lense you would fail to accept the fact that just because by UK/US/International Law the 'baby' is not yet declared alive, biologically the baby is alive. This is an outdated mindset that needs strong counterargument.

    Now the second argument. The mothers rights are above that of the babys. I am strongly of the belief that the sob story of im a poor teenage girl who made a mistake and needs this abortion is an easy one to misinterpet. As humans we fail to sympathise with what we do not know/understand. So we find it easier to feel srry for the girls and trick ourselves into allowing ourselves the excuse for abortion. The most sensitive area of this topic is rape. And this is where i admittedly am still not sure what my opinion is. I greatly sympathise with the poor women who have to go through such horrible ordeals. And am in no way demonosing any women for chosing to abort on such circumstances. Yet casting all motions aside i once again find myself leaning towards anti abortion. When you look at the question faced by such an individual it really does come down to, am i willing to sacrifice another life for the mere conviniency of my own life. If people were faced with such a choice but had to witness the murder or carry it out themselves, despite the ordeals they find themselves going through i find it hard many would find themselves capable of doing so. So why is it that we allow ourselves to be tricked into believing what we are doing is ok? I would like to end with what i think is the only situation that abortion is exucable to some extent, and that is when the mothers life is in danger. That is the one time i feel the mothers rights are above that of the baby as its no longer convenience versus life but life versus life. Thank you for reading and feel free to disagree and debate! This topic is not personal to me so i openly admitt that perhaps my point of view may change given circumstances. Yet i try eradicate feelings from my reasoning and look at things logically and consisely. I apolosgise if any offense was caused, i can assure you if it was it was not attended. I look forward to hearing your opinions

    *SORRY FOR POOR GRAMMAR AND PUNCTUATION*
    Most importantly I believe there is a lot of ethical, moral and humanistic research that goes into and backs UK law regarding this - I presume it is the same in other countries.

    Any choices a mother makes within the law is perfectly acceptable with me.

    I'm not skirting the issue - I merely believe that (no matter our personal thoughts) statute law prevails and protects choices.
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    (Original post by Econowizard)
    Thanks for the comment. Could you explain what exactly the suffering would be? I am willing to accept it may be a difficult and untraditional life . But would it be any more difficult than the life of some third world children in poorer parts of the world? Are their lives not worth living?
    Well, sometimes I wonder if anyone's life is worth living, 'cause what I find depressing is that even though there are good experiences, you know there will always be more painful ones, and you don't know when they'll come, or how bad they'll be. You're just waiting to get a kick in the ass.
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    (Original post by luckystars)
    I'd rather young women not have their lives ruined by a bunch of dividing cells. I thought we moved past having a bunch of old men dictate what females can and can not do?

    Anyway, too many unwanted kids in the world already, too many parents unable to give their kids a good start cause of the expense and abortion will happen either way- it'll just be at greater risk to the woman
    I truly do sympathise with you. I also agree that both economically and socially abortion is great. But there are many not so productive humans in society who if murdered would reduce government budget strains and make lifr easier for the rest of us. Is it not a limitation of our mind that we percieve foetuses are insignificant and less important than ourselves? I really dont want to turn this into a man vs woman argument, that is ireelevant. The matter of fsct is in the act of abortion you are ending a lif purely for conevience.
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    Pro choice. I believe that it is wrong to restrict women's freedom on an issue which is very much about their life and their body. Therefore they should be allowed to make a decision and definitely not be forced to give birth to a baby that they might not want or be able to support. As this could result in bad consequences to their physical and/or mental health, and might therefore harm their baby's health and quality of life.

    Very simply, in my humble opinion, any choice should be left to the mother as it is her body, her life and her baby.
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    (Original post by Econowizard)
    Thanks for your contribution. But do you nlt acknowledge the fact that regardless of whether its a late or early abortion its ending a life? Should you have the choice to end a life purely for convinience? Lets put it this way. If your girlfriend gave birth would you then be ok with just chucking the baby in some bin never to be thought of again? The main point im trying to get across and debate is do you not think that our morals are ourdsted and that essential we have tricked ourselves into thinking something is ok when it isnt like we jave done many times beforr.

    As for you not wanting to get involved due to being a male. I dont want to get to much into the gender issues but i do believe its important for men to acknwoledge , have an opinion on and express their views.
    I wouldnt want to come into this world knowing my mother couldnt offer me her full love so I'd rather she aborted me over giving birth and letting me enter a screwed up world without the love of my mum.

    Plus its not really a life, scientifically speaking sure, but do you even remember your mums womb? The baby has no conscious in the womb.

    That's a tough one, when you put it that way I'm totally against abortions and I'm glad id never have to make that decision which is why i refrain from debate. It's a conflicting issue
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    (Original post by Econowizard)
    I truly do sympathise with you. I also agree that both economically and socially abortion is great. But there are many not so productive humans in society who if murdered would reduce government budget strains and make lifr easier for the rest of us. Is it not a limitation of our mind that we percieve foetuses are insignificant and less important than ourselves? I really dont want to turn this into a man vs woman argument, that is ireelevant. The matter of fsct is in the act of abortion you are ending a lif purely for conevience.
    When abortions can be safely carried out, the "baby" is nothing more but a bunch of cells. So it is only a life in the way that plants have lives. They have living cells and structure, but nothing more. So it is not taking a life, it is more like removing a tumour, for lack of a better word.
    Same thing about convenience can be said about animals. They are closer to "living" than plants, have a consciousness, experience pain etc. But still millions are kept in inhumane conditions (search chicken battery farms) for our convenient consumption
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    (Original post by serah.exe)
    Imagine if the baby was sick and had a fatal generic defect that was diagnosed earlier? Personally I wouldn't watch my kid die early
    Imagine the baby is a result of sexual abuse/rape/incest? You shouldn't force her to give birth
    Imagine the pregnancy is dangerous for the mother who will likely die if she gave birth?
    The list goes on and on
    Don't understand how some pro life people say **** like "it's not her body."

    tl;dr Pro-choice because it's the woman's body thx
    I think you failed to read my argument fully. Firstly i am fully in agreement that if the mothers life is at risk then she should be put first. I said that. I went througj rape, please read what i had to say on that , which i did mention and if you find yourself disagreeing can you not acknowledge that ultimately you are ending a life for your own conveniance? Is that ok? Would you kill say a 5 year old on the street to improve your life drastically?

    As for the genetic disorder that is a good and valid point. However many people have grown to live long and healthy lives despite of a disorder of some sort. Perhaps of the baby os in complete and utter pai and guaranteed of death then that may be a case for abortion . Thnk you for that point of view which i find myself agreeing with. But may you now consider my arguements thoroughly too?
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    (Original post by JamesH2017)
    Most importantly I believe there is a lot of ethical, moral and humanistic research that goes into and backs UK law regarding this - I presume it is the same in other countries.

    Any choices a mother makes within the law is perfectly acceptable with me.

    I'm not skirting the issue - I merely believe that (no matter our personal thoughts) statute law prevails and protects choices.
    That is true . And i am in no way demonsing people who abort. It is within the law and is their right. Yet not so long ago owning a slave was accepted by the law. Law is essential in keepig society functional and opersting smoothly, but it is by no means rigid and is purposely designed to be flexible. Is abortion no somewhat similar to slavery? Its my body/slave i can do whatever the heck i want with it?
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    (Original post by Econowizard)
    I think you failed to read my argument fully. Firstly i am fully in agreement that if the mothers life is at risk then she should be put first. I said that. I went througj rape, please read what i had to say on that , which i did mention and if you find yourself disagreeing can you not acknowledge that ultimately you are ending a life for your own conveniance? Is that ok? Would you kill say a 5 year old on the street to improve your life drastically?

    As for the genetic disorder that is a good and valid point. However many people have grown to live long and healthy lives despite of a disorder of some sort. Perhaps of the baby os in complete and utter pai and guaranteed of death then that may be a case for abortion . Thnk you for that point of view which i find myself agreeing with. But may you now consider my arguements thoroughly too?
    If a female was raped and became pregnant, forcing her to give birth to the rapist's child seems like a good idea to you?
    I stick with my points thanks
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    (Original post by 2-99)
    Well, sometimes I wonder if anyone's life is worth living, 'cause what I find depressing is that even though there are good experiences, you know there will always be more painful ones, and you don't know when they'll come, or how bad they'll be. You're just waiting to get a kick in the ass.
    It is fascinating and yet tiring to contemplate on the meaning of life. And i strongly refrain from giving advice. But to look at it simply no matter how worthy or unworthy our individual lives are they are all as worthy as each others. And in this light i find it easier to debate such issues
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    (Original post by Geodesic)
    Pro choice. I believe that it is wrong to restrict women's freedom on an issue which is very much about their life and their body. Therefore they should be allowed to make a decision and definitely not be forced to give birth to a baby that they might not want or be able to support. As this could result in bad consequences to their physical and/or mental health, and might therefore harm their baby's health and quality of life.

    Very simply, in my humble opinion, any choice should be left to the mother as it is her body, her life and her baby.
    Thank you for the reply and opinion It is her life, it is her body, but its not her baby. In my opinion no life belongs to another despite of the hardships they might have to go through at the end of the day does anyone have a right to end anothers life?
 
 
 
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