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Is (was) it a good decision? What do you think?

Hey there,

So I may be a little off here because I'm not from the UK and do not live there. I'm actually from Canada. Last year, I was admitted to McGill University, one of the top Canadian universities. I intended to study History of English Literature. I had quit my job a year before, not really knowing what to do, except that going back to university was very, very appealing (I already have a Bachelor's Degree in Translation). My idea was to go for a BA in History or English Lit and then maybe go for a MA and a PhD in the UK.

But then I got cold feet.

They accepted me very late in the year, I wasn't even expecting being admitted. That prompted a friend of mine to say they probably accepted me because they had a few free spots available and I would give them money, not because they actually thought I was a good candidate (or they would have accepted me earlier). In any case, what really made me scared is that, at age 37, that exciting plan starts to crumble when I thought that I'd probably be ten years older by the time I finished my Ph.D. (if I got to finish it, that it). And I'd be a man approaching his 50s fresh from university, without relevant work experience competing with much younger recent graduates in fields of work that, by all accounts, are over-saturated. Make no mistake, I wouldn't go into such a journey only thinking about getting a job in the end; I'd go for the opportunity, for the knowledge, for the intellectual stimulus. But let's face it, one has to pay his/her bills, and however I looked at it I could only see myself ten years from now drowning in debt, with no perspective of ever being able to find a nice job (in academia or elsewhere) because of the gap this adventure would create.

So I declined my offer.

I found myself another job, which is basically paying the bills right now, but every now and then I see something about Oxford University or Cambridge or Nottingham or Edinburgh and I feel crushed. I go to Google and I read all the terrifying statistics about the Humanities and that sort of helps me calm down. But I know it''s temporary because sooner or later I'll start wondering about it again.

So I guess I would like to hear what people in a similar situation think and what they did/intend to do. People around my age or older would be nice (sorry, I understand that unis usually consider people over 21 to be mature students, but a guy who is 22 wondering if he's too old to fit in with the 18-year-olds hardly compares to what I'm describing here).

Any thoughts and two cents are deeply appreciated. Thanks.

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Do you need the second undergraduate degree? If you applied directly for an MA it would save you three years.

There's never any guarantees about work afterwards, but life is an adventure and adventures are not risk-free.

My field is different (physics) but I started studying again at the age of 48, and am about to start a PhD aged 52. I think my prospects of a glittering career are uncertain, to say the least, but I've been having a blast these last few years, and I'm just dealing with each stage as it arises. If I end my career with a crappy minimum wage job, at least I've enjoyed myself on the way.
Reply 2
Thank you for your reply, Schadenfreude65. I believe a second BA is not mandatory for a MA in certain universities, but from what I could gather I'd definitely be slackening my chances of ever going into academia if I decided to go that way. And I think I would be able to make a more informed decision about a MA and a PhD if I could study a broader content in History, which the BA would definitely give me.

I totally agree with the way you think. I also don't believe that life is risk-free and when you leave your comfort zone everything is basically a risk. I took my chances with something of my life and, although many didn't turn up the way I intended, I am glad I gave them a shot. But in those cases I at least had some idea where I thought that could lead me, whilst this time I'd be doing it, as I said, basically just for the sake of knowledge. And that's why I have doubts about it. After all, the bills won't stop popping up in my mailbox.

It is nonetheless very reassuring to see that you are doing what you want to do and not really that worried about the future. I wish I were more like that.

Thank you very much!
No problem. It is a big chunk of your life that you're thinking of dedicating to this, so your doubts are absolutely reasonable. Do you think you might give McGill another shot next year? Let us know what you decide to do.
Reply 4
Sometimes that's all I want to do: give McGill another shot and see what happens. But then all this rational arguments and statistics about employment for Humanities graduates come to mind again and I can't simply ignore them because they are part of the reality. If I were interested in Med School or even Law, I guess I wouldn't worry that much. But History/Literature/Philosophy and especially at my age... I don't know, I feel I'd be pushing too much. I still would like to buy a house one day and be able to travel once every two years at least.

The truth is, I feel completely lost. I'm not chasing some dream here. I only got that interested in History a few years ago (although I did well and enjoyed it in school) and I fear I may be just trying to avoid being stuck in another 9-5 job, as I was before. But I also fear not giving it a shot and not having a blast, as you said, and still end up in a boring 9-5 job.

That's why I would like to hear people's stories on this. I am aware no one can make a decision for me and no life story is identical to the other, but maybe I could at least gather more info about if I'm way too scared of debt/unemployment/underemployment or if I really have a point here.
Reply 5
Original post by Douglock
Sometimes that's all I want to do: give McGill another shot and see what happens. But then all this rational arguments and statistics about employment for Humanities graduates come to mind again and I can't simply ignore them because they are part of the reality. If I were interested in Med School or even Law, I guess I wouldn't worry that much. But History/Literature/Philosophy and especially at my age... I don't know, I feel I'd be pushing too much. I still would like to buy a house one day and be able to travel once every two years at least.

The truth is, I feel completely lost. I'm not chasing some dream here. I only got that interested in History a few years ago (although I did well and enjoyed it in school) and I fear I may be just trying to avoid being stuck in another 9-5 job, as I was before. But I also fear not giving it a shot and not having a blast, as you said, and still end up in a boring 9-5 job.

That's why I would like to hear people's stories on this. I am aware no one can make a decision for me and no life story is identical to the other, but maybe I could at least gather more info about if I'm way too scared of debt/unemployment/underemployment or if I really have a point here.


Have you considered working for another year and taking some distance learning courses related to history or English lit (like the Open University)?

I think postgraduate admissions officers are normally looking for both a passion and aptitude for the subject, alongside evidence of the ability to research/work in an academic way. I think you could show the passion and aptitude in different ways, not just through another BA. I'm starting my PhD in October, and I received the studentship (funded and salaried PhD) due to my experience working in the area, even though my postgraduate certification and even bachelors are not 100% relevant.

Are there any volunteering opportunities in any cultural institutions near you? I live in a 'city' that has a big cathedral in England, and they have an education centre run by volunteers. Volunteering for something like that would probably aid in showing a passion for history.

Just trying to put another egg in your basket -- I'm not sure what universities you are looking at in the UK, but I'd definitely say its worth contacting them to have a chat even if you think you're not eligible to study there.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 6
Thank you for your message, Cathrela. That's definitely something I should keep in mind: even if I end up not going for a real degree, I could still try and take courses as a special student (at least in some universities here in Canada), or volunteer to work for something related to History.

Anyway, the problem is not if I'll be admitted to a university because I was admitted last year to one but declined the offer, as I explained in my first post. I'm not really looking at universities in the UK at the moment because that would probably be later, for a MA and/or a PhD. What doesn't let me sleep at night is that History/English Lit/Philosophy/Whatever are not good degrees these days when it comes to finding a job, and especially if you're over a certain age. I worry that I'll only have debt after going for a degree in the humanities. At the same time, working a 9-5 job hasn't worked for in the past 13 years or so, and I quit that.

That's why I wanted to read about other people's experiences. Maybe I worry too much (anxiety disorder is SO much fun...) or maybe I don't. I don't know. Again, I'm completely lost.
Hi, I actually just quit my 9-5 job in Feb as I wasn't happy. I looked at other jobs that I could do/get but they were all similarly boring. I was frustrated and felt brain dead and numb (I had used to write for pleasure, but the past few years I had stopped, stringing sentences together had become hard work). I stumbled across access courses and it suddenly dawned on me that I could go to university, and I realised I really wanted to, I wanted to learn and not feel so brain dead. I decided if I was going to go to uni I was definitely doing something I enjoyed, I am 35 and I don't want to waste another minute doing anything that I don't enjoy or makes me unhappy. I love history and the past couple of years had become interested in philosophy (which is probably the main reason I wanted to quit my job, my perspective on life and what that means changed) so that is my plan for uni, a joint history and philosophy degree. I don't worry about getting a job at the end, I don't think about that at all. I plan on doing a masters so a job is 6 years away, that's a long time. I have no doubts about what I am doing, I have a family and a mortgage and we have took a drop in income so I can pursue this; I am happier than I have been for a long time and really looking forward to the challenge. If I think about the alternative, what I could be doing now instead, still stuck at the same or similar brain dead job, I feel lucky I found something I wanted to do and brave enough to take the risk (although it doesn't seem like so much of a risk now) and grateful my partner is so supportive. The truth is a lot of jobs just ask for a degree, the options for a history and philosophy degree are numerous, from politics and publishing to museums and libraries (although a masters in museum or library studies is essential but that's what a masters is for, to help you specialise in the area you want to work).

I am going to enjoy the next 6 years learning about subjects I love and am not worrying about the job at the end, life is too short. I know that at the end I will have work experience, a degree and a masters, that combined will lead to a job I actually want to do (even though I don't what that is yet).
Reply 8
Thank you for sharing this, rosemadder. It's really inspiring! We have a few similar points in our stories. I, too, was very unhappy in my 9-5 job, and that unhappiness led me to read more English literature. That prompted me to start reading about philosophy, which in turn awakened in me a strong interest in history. I had always been more or less interested in all that, but since I have always heard that those fields do not lead to a career, I never really thought about studying them, let alone trying to find a job related to them.

I'm glad that you can count on your partner, that is probably very encouraging! I can count on no one but myself, unfortunately. I don't mind living on a small budget, but I'm not sure if going back to school in any of those fields (literature, history, philosophy...) would be a good thing for me. The knowledge would be invaluable, I don't question that for a second, but I worry that after years of study I would be deemed too old to pursue academia and/or too old and too inexperienced to try any other job.

Those are some of the reasons I don't want to talk about "chasing my dream" or whatever.. almost everything seems justified when people say they want to make their dreams come true, but I'm a much more practical person, I suppose.

Nevertheless, you seem pretty confident in the path you've chosen and I truly wish you all the best! Cheers!
Original post by Douglock
Thank you for sharing this, rosemadder. It's really inspiring! We have a few similar points in our stories. I, too, was very unhappy in my 9-5 job, and that unhappiness led me to read more English literature. That prompted me to start reading about philosophy, which in turn awakened in me a strong interest in history. I had always been more or less interested in all that, but since I have always heard that those fields do not lead to a career, I never really thought about studying them, let alone trying to find a job related to them.

I'm glad that you can count on your partner, that is probably very encouraging! I can count on no one but myself, unfortunately. I don't mind living on a small budget, but I'm not sure if going back to school in any of those fields (literature, history, philosophy...) would be a good thing for me. The knowledge would be invaluable, I don't question that for a second, but I worry that after years of study I would be deemed too old to pursue academia and/or too old and too inexperienced to try any other job.

Those are some of the reasons I don't want to talk about "chasing my dream" or whatever.. almost everything seems justified when people say they want to make their dreams come true, but I'm a much more practical person, I suppose.

Nevertheless, you seem pretty confident in the path you've chosen and I truly wish you all the best! Cheers!


Your welcome, I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do as well. Just remember life is short, it's there to be lived, experienced and enjoyed :smile: No regrets :smile:
Reply 10
Original post by rosemadder
Your welcome, I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do as well. Just remember life is short, it's there to be lived, experienced and enjoyed :smile: No regrets :smile:


Thank you very much :smile: I've been trying to live and not worry about the future, but I can't help wondering if going back to uni for something that's not really marketable and finishing it so late in life is a wise step. I thought quitting my stable, well-paying but boring job would be the hardest part, but I found out that making the decision of what to do next is actually the hardest one. I'm terrified of not being able to work anywhere if I decide to go back to school.
Original post by Douglock
Thank you very much :smile: I've been trying to live and not worry about the future, but I can't help wondering if going back to uni for something that's not really marketable and finishing it so late in life is a wise step. I thought quitting my stable, well-paying but boring job would be the hardest part, but I found out that making the decision of what to do next is actually the hardest one. I'm terrified of not being able to work anywhere if I decide to go back to school.


There will always be somewhere to work, whether you go to school or not (maybe initially your job won't be related to your degree, however I bet it would relate to the skills you learnt whilst completing your degree). The added bonus would be along with your life skills and work experience you will also have a degree, I can only think that most employers would be impressed at the sacrifice and commitment it takes to return to uni as a mature student and acheive a degree :smile:
Reply 12
That's one of the things that cross my mind every now and then: if the prospects of finding a job in the humanities are not good and there is a high chance that I'll have to work in something completely unrelated to pay the bills, is it really a good idea to spend 3 or more years accumulating debt for something that, according to everything I've read, will not really increase my chances in the job market?

I already have a BA in Translation, so whatever benefits I can harness from it in a job are already there. I had a job that paid me well, but it was a dead end and extremely dull. As I said, I'd go back to university for the sake of knowledge and for at least having a chance, no matter how slight, of one day getting into academia. At the same time, I can't really pretend that I don't live in a world where I need money for everything (including going back to school).

I've been reading other threads and forums and I've noticed that a bunch of people seem to have more or less the same fears, which at least makes me feel that maybe I'm not overreacting. I mean, when I'm 60 I'd love to have my own place and be able to buy a new computer without worrying if that will mean that I'll have to eat noodles for two months.

Sorry for babbling so much about this here. Again, I know no one can tell the future and I am the one who has to make a decision. I just want to read more about other people's experiences and opinions regarding all this, and I thank all who have written/are writing comments. I appreciate it a lot!
Another Canadian here. I didn't even try to go to university during or out of high school because I have learning disabilities and my parents trashed Humanities and Social Sciences so much (those were the subjects that interested me as a kid). It's taken until my 30's to decide that I don't care if it will or won't lead to a career. I hope it will lead to something, but this extremely conservative approach that my parents taught me hasn't served me in the long run. I have to take chances sometimes.

I'm first gen post-secondary with disabilities and children, which qualifies me for a good deal of financial aid. Not to say I'm rolling in dough, but in the 2 years I've been going to school, I've qualified for more aid than I was expecting. I hadn't realized those kinds of things were taken into account. Going to school at this age is a big chance but I'm done with playing it safe. Playing it safe meant I missed out on a lot of things that I wanted to do so badly. My grades are great (they were usually terrible when I was a kid) and I enjoy it so much! I've been told by TA's and a couple of professors how unique my papers are and I'm able to make good arguments. I should hope so, I've had years of debating with bosses to try ideas to make the company more money. My writing has a long way to go, but I enjoy being challenged and I enjoy challenging my TA's and professors. Going back to school was an excellent decision! I'm really happy I'm doing this.
Reply 14
Original post by Canucked
Another Canadian here. I didn't even try to go to university during or out of high school because I have learning disabilities and my parents trashed Humanities and Social Sciences so much (those were the subjects that interested me as a kid). It's taken until my 30's to decide that I don't care if it will or won't lead to a career. I hope it will lead to something, but this extremely conservative approach that my parents taught me hasn't served me in the long run. I have to take chances sometimes.

I'm first gen post-secondary with disabilities and children, which qualifies me for a good deal of financial aid. Not to say I'm rolling in dough, but in the 2 years I've been going to school, I've qualified for more aid than I was expecting. I hadn't realized those kinds of things were taken into account. Going to school at this age is a big chance but I'm done with playing it safe. Playing it safe meant I missed out on a lot of things that I wanted to do so badly. My grades are great (they were usually terrible when I was a kid) and I enjoy it so much! I've been told by TA's and a couple of professors how unique my papers are and I'm able to make good arguments. I should hope so, I've had years of debating with bosses to try ideas to make the company more money. My writing has a long way to go, but I enjoy being challenged and I enjoy challenging my TA's and professors. Going back to school was an excellent decision! I'm really happy I'm doing this.


Thank you, Canucked, and I have to say it makes me happy to see someone who has overcome so much and decided to do something they wanted despite all circumstances being against them. I can totally relate to the "play safe" part of your post. I've tried it for a long time and it didn't work for me that is, the stability-and-money part did work, but that did not bring me satisfaction and suddenly here I am, thinking about playing it all safe again because the odds are against me. And to think that I quit my job precisely because I felt I wanted to explore more other options...

Congratulations on overcoming everything and going for what you wanted! I really hope you'll have a brilliant future!
If you really feel that crushed when you see reports about certain British universities, then I'd say that there's your answer. I don't imagine that feeling will ever go away until you do something about it. I think dealing with those kind of intrusive thoughts about what could have been, is really hard, and I can't imagine it being fun dealing with that forever.. (I'm in a slightly similar boat about obsessively thinking about whether I will regret not studying further)..

Before deciding anything, I would contact the university (and maybe other unis) about the BA you already have - and the degree to which it would limit your preferred route into academia - is there a chance you could be wrong about needing to take a second BA?

The age thing seems to be an anxiety that a lot of people have (including myself), which is a shame as so many people study later in life and retrain, and have a lot to add to their chosen subject. Only going back to university if you go into medicine/health or law, due to job prospects is a really sad thought - that there are some passionate bright people who may have a lot to add to different subject areas, but are too put off by money etc. I really don't think 40s or 50s is too old to do a phd - lots of people wait and do them later on.

I'm not sure about your friend - just because the humanities are not as competitive as some areas, doesn't mean you need to take the approach that they only want you due to free spaces/money. If its a subject you love, and a good uni, why not just be happy and positive about the opportunity?

I don't know loads about jobs in that area but I would imagine that the phd would mean you could quite easily apply for lecturing jobs? Is that something you could happily do - be a professor? Or some other work at a university? And I guess publishing your own stuff?
(edited 6 years ago)
I'm 30 and about to do my post grad in the humanities. In many ways this is a huge leap in the dark, I've had pretty massive health and other major life problems, including patchy employment the past few years, and my health is still very much an ongoing problem. However, because of my struggles with illness I thought a lot about what I would regret if I was no longer here (sorry to be morbid!), and the no.1 thing would be that I didn't go back to university. I know that pain you talk about when you hear about unis, it really hurt me for years and it didn't go away. So I'm going for it. Which is stressful but also given me more hope that I have felt in years.

I hope to go onto do a phd, but if not to go back to what I used to do (which you could still do too) with the added benefit of having a Masters, or perhaps work for a uni.

The thing about universities is that they can open up a whole range of opportunities. They usually have a careers service, which you can often use up to a couple of years after graduating. They have internal jobs you can apply for at the uni. And all the alumni and networking type opportunities.

I don't know about Canada, but in the UK having an Anxiety disorder can mean that you are entitled to extra financial help and also help to make your studies easier and more accessible. There are also grants and funding available.

I would be really surprised if it was held against you not having a BA in your subject if you already have a BA and then went onto do a Masters and PhD. The Masters I'm doing is not totally relevant to my undergrad but I was fine getting in, demonstrating the links there were and also interest from my career.

It sounds like you really want to do this but are just worried about the future, which I get, I find taking risks really scary, knowing how far there is to fall. But all that uncertainity is still there anyway whether you take this chance or not. If you have a chance to be happy, if you've found something you feel you're meant to do, that's pretty priceless, I'd say take it. Good luck!
Reply 17
Original post by fluffycat88
If you really feel that crushed when you see reports about certain British universities, then I'd say that there's your answer. I don't imagine that feeling will ever go away until you do something about it. I think dealing with those kind of intrusive thoughts about what could have been, is really hard, and I can't imagine it being fun dealing with that forever.. (I'm in a slightly similar boat about obsessively thinking about whether I will regret not studying further)..

Before deciding anything, I would contact the university (and maybe other unis) about the BA you already have - and the degree to which it would limit your preferred route into academia - is there a chance you could be wrong about needing to take a second BA?

The age thing seems to be an anxiety that a lot of people have (including myself), which is a shame as so many people study later in life and retrain, and have a lot to add to their chosen subject. Only going back to university if you go into medicine/health or law, due to job prospects is a really sad thought - that there are some passionate bright people who may have a lot to add to different subject areas, but are too put off by money etc. I really don't think 40s or 50s is too old to do a phd - lots of people wait and do them later on.

I'm not sure about your friend - just because the humanities are not as competitive as some areas, doesn't mean you need to take the approach that they only want you due to free spaces/money. If its a subject you love, and a good uni, why not just be happy and positive about the opportunity?

I don't know loads about jobs in that area but I would imagine that the phd would mean you could quite easily apply for lecturing jobs? Is that something you could happily do - be a professor? Or some other work at a university? And I guess publishing your own stuff?


Thanks for your message, fluffycat88. I totally agree that the feeling will always return. I even told my parents that last year when I declined McGill's offer of admission. As for the second BA, it's not so much as if unis would require me to have another BA; it's actually me. I have no foundation in History or whatever and it would be hard for me to even choose a Master's or PhD program due to lack of knowledge. A second BA would then provide me with not only a taste of going back to school (so that I can see if I'm really up to the task and willing to go all the way), but also with knowledge necessary for me to choose a particular path when heading for graduate studies.

Again, I agree with the age thing. At age 37, I don't consider myself to be old to learn, and I definitely would say the same of someone who is 60 or 70. The issue here, though, is that the job market does consider someone in their 50s or 60s to be old. And unfortunately we still need to pay our bills even when we are 50 or 60. I have no doubts I could go back to uni, get a second BA, a MA and a PhD and do research and teach, and contribute to my chosen field until I die or am no longer interested. But the job market doesn't see it that way, and I feel it's a battle I can't really win. The way I see it, I surely can go back to university, but in doing so I should also accept that a possible future for me is to be broke and to have to work minimum wage jobs. And that's definitely a situation I wouldn't enjoy.

Finally, I'd be fine with researching and teaching. The thing is, the jobs prospects for university professors are dreadful. In order to stand a chance, I'd have to graduate from the top universities, be willing to move to another city (or even country) and be ready to compete, at age 45-50, with all the 20 and 30-year-olds who would be also be killing to get the one or two positions that open every year. And even if I do all that, there is no guarantee at all that I'll end up researching and teaching somewhere. I may very well be at the same point I am today, only 10 years older and a lot poorer, and that makes me question the whole thing.
Reply 18
Original post by studyfox
I'm 30 and about to do my post grad in the humanities. In many ways this is a huge leap in the dark, I've had pretty massive health and other major life problems, including patchy employment the past few years, and my health is still very much an ongoing problem. However, because of my struggles with illness I thought a lot about what I would regret if I was no longer here (sorry to be morbid!), and the no.1 thing would be that I didn't go back to university. I know that pain you talk about when you hear about unis, it really hurt me for years and it didn't go away. So I'm going for it. Which is stressful but also given me more hope that I have felt in years.

I hope to go onto do a phd, but if not to go back to what I used to do (which you could still do too) with the added benefit of having a Masters, or perhaps work for a uni.

The thing about universities is that they can open up a whole range of opportunities. They usually have a careers service, which you can often use up to a couple of years after graduating. They have internal jobs you can apply for at the uni. And all the alumni and networking type opportunities.

I don't know about Canada, but in the UK having an Anxiety disorder can mean that you are entitled to extra financial help and also help to make your studies easier and more accessible. There are also grants and funding available.

I would be really surprised if it was held against you not having a BA in your subject if you already have a BA and then went onto do a Masters and PhD. The Masters I'm doing is not totally relevant to my undergrad but I was fine getting in, demonstrating the links there were and also interest from my career.

It sounds like you really want to do this but are just worried about the future, which I get, I find taking risks really scary, knowing how far there is to fall. But all that uncertainity is still there anyway whether you take this chance or not. If you have a chance to be happy, if you've found something you feel you're meant to do, that's pretty priceless, I'd say take it. Good luck!


Thank you for your post, studyfox, and congrats on overcoming all those difficulties and going for what you want to do! You're absolutely right, going to uni can indeed open a number of doors. Most of the time I'm aware that I tend to focus too much on the cons of going back to university in my particular situation, and that gets in the way of actually seeing things in a more balanced manner.

Again, a number of universities certainly wouldn't mind me accepting me for a MA without a relevant a BA first. It's just that, apart from not really being able to choose a MA due to lack of knowledge in whatever field I choose, in order to have a real chance of getting a position in academia I must have a very solid career path. That means not only knowledge, but graduating from top universities. And many top universities would not really favour those who are applying with a not really relevant BA.

Sometimes I feel I really want to do this, sometimes I feel it's just a whim. I never really felt I was meant to do anything in particular, let alone take a leap in the dark such as this one. Hell, I don't know if I'd even be able to complete the BA. But of course, I can't know that unless I try.
Seems like a LOT to think about there. It depends whether you can live with those thoughts about missing out on academia, and be content with that. Or the extent to which they would get you down. Speaking to a therapist could help with working that out...?
It seems it all comes down to the risk you're willing to take. Your worst fears might happen - lots of debt is a given with doing a BA, but then as you say, working minimum wage jobs could happen. On the other hand your best dreams could happen - getting an amazing job, being well respected in your field, etc. Is it worth the risk?
The reason I asked about whether it's 100% worth doing the BA, is because (in my understanding) that would form the main part of your debt. So if you found a way to not do the BA (maybe by doing a lot of your own research before starting an MA?), then you could avoid a lot of debt worries. And then it would be 1 yr Masters + phd, which is less of a huge commitment?

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