Is it fair for schools to kick students out after AS? Watch

This discussion is closed.
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#1
I had an argument about this on twitter and I'd like some opinions here.

The example being from this article: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...P=share_btn_tw

Basically a school which requires students to have at least 3 B grades at AS to continue onto A2. This is quite high but it is a very high achieving grammar school.

However, the dispute turned into people saying that even my school is unfair for requiring 3 Ds as the school is giving up on students even though it is the school's fault that they didn't do well. I wouldn't exactly blame the school but I guess it is the school giving up on students.

Is it fair for schools to kick out students who don't achieve certain grades at AS?

Should be taken into account that both my school and the one in article do have some leeway (the grammar school gives them another chance on the mocks) and mine allows people that narrowly miss the requirements usually.
1
Pedrex
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 year ago
#2
I don't think it is. Some students have bad days and mess up (like i did this year in AS). They need a chance to redeem theirselfs
1
Amefish
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 year ago
#3
If they've been showing a genuine lack of interest and potential throughout the year, then I think it's fair to kick them out. However, if they've been performing well throughout the year and are enthusiastic and committed, they should be let back on.
7
Pangol
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#4
Report 1 year ago
#4
I've chipped in on the thread about that shool here - https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=4916984.

I think it's fair to say to students who fail their AS exams, or who get an E in them, that they can't continue. This is evidence that they will probably fail the course.

I don't think that any student with a D or above should be prevented from continuing just becasue the school's results won't look great. We need to value all A level passes, and for some people, getting a D at the end of the course is a real achievement.
0
DetectivePeralta
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#5
Report 1 year ago
#5
I think if the school has admitted them into the sixth form then that should be for the full two years. It could be hard to enter other schools in year 13 after being removed. It's fine to be selective when selecting students for entry into the sixth form but halfway through, that just causes unnecessary stress for the student and will probably worsen their grades further.
1
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#6
(Original post by Pangol)
I've chipped in on the thread about that shool here - https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=4916984.

I think it's fair to say to students who fail their AS exams, or who get an E in them, that they can't continue. This is evidence that they will probably fail the course.

I don't think that any student with a D or above should be prevented from continuing just becasue the school's results won't look great. We need to value all A level passes, and for some people, getting a D at the end of the course is a real achievement.
ah dammit I tried to look for another thread on it but didn't find it. This is awkward now...

My school allows D grades. I do think that it is tough at that school to expect 3 Bs especially if they don't help students that will have to change schools. Could just not join that school though I guess.
0
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#7
(Original post by Trapz99)
I think if the school has admitted them into the sixth form then that should be for the full two years. It could be hard to enter other schools in year 13 after being removed. It's fine to be selective when selecting students for entry into the sixth form but halfway through, that just causes unnecessary stress for the student and will probably worsen their grades further.
There are lots of students that have success in a school where they've resat so that's not necessarily true. And the school admits the student for two years with the conditions that the students work to a certain standard.
0
AnnieGakusei
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#8
Report 1 year ago
#8
(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
even though it is the school's fault that they didn't do well.
It's not always the school's fault, that's the thing.

I had a classmate who rarely bothered turning up to her classes and was constantly late for English (much to the upset of my teacher). She never did her homework and boasted smugly that because she had an unconditional, all she needed was three E grades. The teachers constantly spoke to her and warned her about what would happen, but she didn't care.

It got to exam results day and she was in floods of tears. She's the sort of person who would probably blame the school for doing badly.

Students do need to take a certain amount of responsibility because once you get to university you're all on your lonesome and it becomes a lot harder to claim the university failed you.
0
Crumpet1
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9
Report 1 year ago
#9
(Original post by Trapz99)
I think if the school has admitted them into the sixth form then that should be for the full two years. It could be hard to enter other schools in year 13 after being removed. It's fine to be selective when selecting students for entry into the sixth form but halfway through, that just causes unnecessary stress for the student and will probably worsen their grades further.
This. It's criminal to kick students out half way through their A'level courses, when they might not be able to find another school who offers their subjects, with the same exam boards. Plus who knows whether the teachers will be covering subjects in the same or a different order. You need continuity of teaching throughout the two year course.
0
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#10
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#10
(Original post by Pedrex)
I don't think it is. Some students have bad days and mess up (like i did this year in AS). They need a chance to redeem theirselfs
I guess but a bad day wouldn't ruin all exams so that could be taken into account for an exception. There are also other institutions that they can redeem themselves at.

(Original post by Amefish)
If they've been showing a genuine lack of interest and potential throughout the year, then I think it's fair to kick them out. However, if they've been performing well throughout the year and are enthusiastic and committed, they should be let back on.
Yeah and this is where they make exceptions. My school did that for someone whose grades were a shock to everyone who heard because he is usually much better. What about students that have shown interest but throughout have been a low achiever? Do they deserve to stay?
0
_gcx
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#11
Report 1 year ago
#11
(Original post by AnnieGakusei)
It's not always the school's fault, that's the thing.
I would go one step further. People are seemingly far too quick to blame the school, as opposed to admitting that the student slacked, or simply wasn't capable. I would say that most of the time it's not the school's fault.
3
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#12
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#12
(Original post by AnnieGakusei)
It's not always the school's fault, that's the thing.

I had a classmate who rarely bothered turning up to her classes and was constantly late for English (much to the upset of my teacher). She never did her homework and boasted smugly that because she had an unconditional, all she needed was three E grades. The teachers constantly spoke to her and warned her about what would happen, but she didn't care.

It got to exam results day and she was in floods of tears. She's the sort of person who would probably blame the school for doing badly.

Students do need to take a certain amount of responsibility because once you get to university you're all on your lonesome and it becomes a lot harder to claim the university failed you.
Yeah I feel like people had similar attitudes in my year. During study leave we were allowed to use the sixth form centre to revise but some people would come in to just socialise and were then shocked to not do well.

Also, if some students can do well at the school and others can't I think that it is hard to blame the school.
0
Terranova
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 year ago
#13
Sure but they lose bragging rights if their kids get AAA like a battery after the school kicked out kids with anything less at the end of the first year.
0
fxlloutboyy
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 year ago
#14
I think it's fair to need to pass the subject (at least an E or D). My sixth form let students stay on who get U's in every subject - the school is quite small so they want to keep all their students.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#15
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#15
(Original post by Crumpet1)
This. It's criminal to kick students out half way through their A'level courses, when they might not be able to find another school who offers their subjects, with the same exam boards. Plus who knows whether the teachers will be covering subjects in the same or a different order. You need continuity of teaching throughout the two year course.
It's slightly an exaggeration to call it criminal.

For the three B school that is a fair issue to have but if you have Es in numerous subjects then resitting is probably the best idea so it won't matter what exam board it is.
0
Dot.Cotton
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#16
Report 1 year ago
#16
Of course it's fair. Why should the school use their resources on complete no-hopers?
1
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#17
(Original post by orderofthelotus)
Sure but they lose bragging rights if their kids get AAA like a battery after the school kicked out kids with anything less at the end of the first year.
I guess it's fair that they lose bragging rights but they still got 32 A*A*A* students which is impressive anywhere.
0
Crumpet1
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 year ago
#18
(Original post by AspiringUnderdog)
It's slightly an exaggeration to call it criminal.

For the three B school that is a fair issue to have but if you have Es in numerous subjects then resitting is probably the best idea so it won't matter what exam board it is.
There is merit in your second point (though it doesn't address the situation of high performers who make a bad transition from GCSE to A'level but can be rescued given the right support). But I still firmly believe it is the school's job to get things right at the start of 6th form, not just give up on the hard ones and shove those pupils over to other schools to pick up the pieces.

I quite like the idea of league tables taking into account behaviour like this in some way - measuring the difference between the number of pupils taking AS c.f. the number of pupils taking A2, or something. It would need to be fairly measured, but it would cut down on behaviour like this.
0
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#19
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#19
(Original post by fxlloutboyy)
I think it's fair to need to pass the subject (at least an E or D). My sixth form let students stay on who get U's in every subject - the school is quite small so they want to keep all their students.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Yeah I think my school would rather have higher requirements too but they don't want to remove so many students. The first assembly of year 12 the head teacher said that D grades are bad, C grades are decent but you can forget places like Manchester if you get all Cs.

(Original post by Dot.Cotton)
Of course it's fair. Why should the school use their resources on complete no-hopers?
some say that they should work hard on them and make them good students.
0
AspiringUnderdog
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#20
Report Thread starter 1 year ago
#20
(Original post by Crumpet1)
There is merit in your second point (though it doesn't address the situation of high performers who make a bad transition from GCSE to A'level but can be rescued given the right support). But I still firmly believe it is the school's job to get things right at the start of 6th form, not just give up on the hard ones and shove those pupils over to other schools to pick up the pieces.

I quite like the idea of league tables taking into account behaviour like this in some way - measuring the difference between the number of pupils taking AS c.f. the number of pupils taking A2, or something. It would need to be fairly measured, but it would cut down on behaviour like this.
Well arguably it depends on the reason that they had a bad transition. Being a student with lots of A*s at GCSE and then achieving Es and Us at AS could be because of the student thinking that they're smart and they don't need to work anymore. It's a bit hard for the school to help them if they've just given up on working hard.

That could be a good idea but it all depends on if people take grades into account only or take everything into account when looking at the tables.
0
X
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Is the plastic tax enough to protect the environment?

Yes (12)
5.53%
No (205)
94.47%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed