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Nigel Farage to speak at far-right rally in Germany

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lol of course he is.
It'a not really that much of a surprise considering he was a fan of Oswald Mosley and his Blackshirts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-fascist-nazi-song-gas-them-all-ukip-brexit-schoolfriend-dulwich-college-a7185236.html
Reply 3
The term far right is very subjective, often being used by those on the left to attempt to silence or discredit relatively reasonable and popular viewpoints being expressed by some on the right. The AfD is not far right in my view for opposing Merkel's refugee policy and for being Eurosceptic. Those are views shared by many people, maybe even a majority, in the UK.
Reply 4
Original post by Mathemagicien
Nazi's like other Nazi's company, who'd have thought?

Unlike most other nationalist party's in Europe, the AfD is actually far-right; e.g. it is more against same-sex marriage than even Merkel's party.

I actually think Farage might be a good influence on them, hes a bit more sensible than them.


It's far right to be against same-sex marriage? And the Nazis were very much left wing economically
Original post by Mathemagicien
Nazi's like other Nazi's company, who'd have thought?

Unlike most other nationalist party's in Europe, the AfD is actually far-right; e.g. it is more against same-sex marriage than even Merkel's party.

I actually think Farage might be a good influence on them, hes a bit more sensible than them.


You think Farage is a Nazi? hahahahahahaha
Far right? A party that polls about 10% of the electorate?

That must make the British Greens ultra-left.

You are having a laugh.
I don't know much about the AFD but the way this is reported is laughable. They're trying so hard to invoke comparisons with the Nazis that they mention one of the candidates is the grandchild of Hitler's finance minister.

From a quick look into the AFD they don't really seem far right to me but this whole topic is funny reminder of how far right has become a slur. Far right should really mean nothing beyond your economic views but somehow people have decided to attach everything bad to being right wing
It's a right-wing party, but twenty years ago this wouldn't have been considered far right. It's only far right now because modern society has shifted quite a few points towards the left end of the scale.

I disagree with them, but I don't think the party is necessarily inherently Nazi.
Original post by AnnieGakusei
It's only far right now because modern society has shifted quite a few points towards the left end of the scale.


Being socially liberal is not the same as being economically left. Being Eurosceptic is hardly illiberal and has no relationship to being economically on the right. The Labour party, when it was as far left as it is now, was anti-Europe.
Original post by Good bloke
Far right? A party that polls about 10% of the electorate?

That must make the British Greens ultra-left.

You are having a laugh.


So the political position of a party is defined by their levels of support?
Excellent logic GB.

Considering you seemed to think the Labour manifesto was 'far left' and call everything left of Blair 'communism', I think it's apt to call the AFD far-right.

It must only be lefties who are calling them far-right, like that ultra lefty paper the Daily Express: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/848285/germany-election-2017-alternative-germany-far-right-win-seats-ww2

And that well known left wing rag, the Daily Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/who-are-the-afd-the-far-right-party-hoping-to-end-merkels-reign/

Another example would be that bastion of Socialism, the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4062594/Support-Germany-s-far-Right-AfD-party-soars-one-year-high-Berlin-truck-attack.html
Original post by Underscore__
I don't know much about the AFD but the way this is reported is laughable. They're trying so hard to invoke comparisons with the Nazis that they mention one of the candidates is the grandchild of Hitler's finance minister.

From a quick look into the AFD they don't really seem far right to me but this whole topic is funny reminder of how far right has become a slur. Far right should really mean nothing beyond your economic views but somehow people have decided to attach everything bad to being right wing


Tell the Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail and Daily Express that. Three right wing papers that have all called AFD 'far right'.

'Far right' for generations has been used to describe social views, not economic views. Very right wing economically minded people would be described as libertarian/neoliberal/ free market. Not 'far right'.
(edited 6 years ago)


You advocate the Eat excrement, trillions of flies do, argument I see.

:toofunny:

You are quoting the Daily Mail to support your position. Regardless of the discussion, that is astonishing. Normally, if the DM said that Christmas will be on 25 December this year you'd poo-pooh it.

The only valid reason to label a party as far right is that its policies are, indeed, far right. That is not the case here, and the party has mainstream support, though limited by its Europe stance.

It is against immigration (like about half of the population of Britain), Eurosceptic (like half the population of Britain), would join Britain outside the Euro and the bail-outs, and seeks a balanced budget with tax cuts for those on low and middle incomes, which sounds pretty reasonable. Nothing exceptionable there.

On defence it wants to spend 2% of GDP (according to the NATO treaty obligations) and limit NATO to its defence role inside its borders, with no adventures, about the middle of the road compared to other parties.

Why label it far right? Perhaps you can tell me?
Original post by Trapz99
And the Nazis were very much left wing economically


This argument usually crops up. That apparently the Nazis were left wing. It makes it no less daft to bring it up again. The Nazi's were most certainly not 'left wing' either economically or socially. They banned trade unions, banned women from working and privatized quite a number of national industries.

Socialism is an ideology based on class, Nazism is an ideology based on race. The two are not compatible with one another. Nazi economics were neither inherently left or right wing, fascist economies are their own category in and of themselves.

I know your response will be to point out that the Nazis called themselves 'national socialists'. Labelling yourself as something does not make it so. The Nazis were political opportunists, willing to say anything and hold any position that they felt would be to their advantage at any given time. There was no redistribution of wealth, no worker co-operatives, no trade unions, in fact there was very little that could reasonably be described as left wing or socialist.
Were he attending a far-left rally anywhere and that would be interesting.
Original post by Good bloke
You advocate the Eat excrement, trillions of flies do, argument I see.

:toofunny:

You are quoting the Daily Mail to support your position. Regardless of the discussion, that is astonishing. Normally, if the DM said that Christmas will be on 25 December this year you'd poo-pooh it.

The only valid reason to label a party as far right is that its policies are, indeed, far right. That is not the case here, and the party has mainstream support, though limited by its Europe stance.

It is against immigration (like about half of the population of Britain), Eurosceptic (like half the population of Britain), would join Britain outside the Euro and the bail-outs, and seeks a balanced budget with tax cuts for those on low and middle incomes, which sounds pretty reasonable. Nothing exceptionable there.

On defence it wants to spend 2% of GDP (according to the NATO treaty obligations) and limit NATO to its defence role inside its borders, with no adventures, about the middle of the road compared to other parties.

Why label it far right? Perhaps you can tell me?


It seems you miss the point. You were trying to claim it was just lefties accusing all those who disagree of them being far-right, yet here we have three firmly right wing newspapers calling them far-right. So, despite your implications, it is not just
the left describing them as such, but people on your own side Why do you not criticise the Telegraph for calling them far-right?

Your justification of them not being 'far right', that they they have a fair bit of support is rather poor. The levels of support a party has are no reflection on whether or not that party is far-right.

Interestingly, you ignored the point about the fact that you regularly call Corbyn and Labour far-left and have done so on this thread, yet you are unable to name a single policy of theirs which is far-left. Funny how you don't apply the same level of scrutiny to labelling someone fa-left as you do when someone is accused of being far-right.

I wonder why that is.... Perhaps you can inform us.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
Tell the Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail and Daily Express that. Three right wing papers that have all called AFD 'far right'.


Three beacons of rational and respectable journalism. I don't know much about them but if they're so far right how about providing some evidence rather than flippantly pointing to the Daily Mail's description.

Original post by Bornblue
'Far right' for generations has been used to describe social views, not economic views. Very right wing economically minded people would be described as libertarian/neoliberal/ free market. Not 'far right'.


Well I'm not really sure how far back that dates but clearly you've missed my point. Left and right really is about your view on the state's role so far as it concerns economics with far left being communism and far right being complete free market capitalism. At some point 'far right' began to mean anything bad or anything the mainstream disagrees with hence the conflation of the 'far right' and Nazis.
Reply 17
Farage, the guy who lived more than 20 years in Belgium but can't speak German, French or Flemish and wants people living in the UK to learn English!
Original post by Underscore__




Well I'm not really sure how far back that dates but clearly you've missed my point. Left and right really is about your view on the state's role so far as it concerns economics with far left being communism and far right being complete free market capitalism. At some point 'far right' began to mean anything bad or anything the mainstream disagrees with hence the conflation of the 'far right' and Nazis.


Not exactly. The origins of the terms left v right, as i'm sure you're aware of, arose during the French Revolution in which supporters of the King sat to his right and opponents to his left. It was not simply limited to a debate on economics. Economics and social policy is not always easily distinguishable either. Indeed in Communism they are very closely linked.

Hitler for decades has been described as far-right. As far-right relates to social policy, not economic policy. There is a left-right scale for both economic and social ideologies. For clarity more than anything else, the left-right social scale has often been relabelled as being liberal vs authoritarian. It doesn't mean the term 'far right' is out of place to describe the Nazis or Mussolini.

Frequently the political right describe feminists and black lives matter as left wing groups but neither are really about economic ideologies. 'Far right' clearly refers to a fascist ideology based on race, regardless of their economic views. The Nazis were not free market but they were far right. Thatcher was free market (well, allegedly) but she wasn't far right.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
Why do you not criticise the Telegraph for calling them far-right? I did.


I did criticise the Telegraph. It was included in the Eat excrement aphorism along with your other links. The Telegraph is talking excrement when it calls the AfD far right.

Original post by Bornblue

Your justification of them not being 'far right', that they they have a fair bit of support is rather poor.


No. My justification for the label being wrong is that its policies are not far right, as I described, rather they are mildly right.

Original post by Bornblue

name a single policy of theirs which is far-left.


I should think re-nationalisation of mail and energy companies, at a time when we don't have the money and can ill afford to borrow it would qualify as far left, wouldn't you? Turning back the clock on union power would also qualify. I would imagine Corbyn and McDonnell would both be affronted at those that claim they are not far left.

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