Do You Think Homosexual Males Are Born Homosexuals&#x27; Or Is It A Choice?

Gnostic XXX

Homosexuals often claim that even before they start puberty they were more girl-like with preference to toys, and liked boys (in a non-sexual, child-like crush way).

I find it quite arrogant of you to claim to understand the background and workings of love. The sharpest and wisest of men (and wommen) has tried to decrypt this phenomena for ages, and now you try to imply that it is easily explained in a few paragraphs? Love is complicated, and this applies among homosexuals as well.

Reply 22

Gnostic XXX

Homosexuals often claim that even before they start puberty they were more girl-like with preference to toys, and liked boys (in a non-sexual, child-like crush way).

Two points on this:
1) OK, first something makes me uneasy here about the equation of homosexuality with effeminacy - although I haven't quite put my finger on why.
2) Given what you're saying is true (and I have no idea if it is), this could easily be swung to back up what I'm saying. It's a chicken and the egg thing...
Do homosexuals play with girly toys because they're inherently gay?
Or
Or does the childhood identification with femininity subconsciously influence that person's sexual preference.

Reply 23

Jonatan

I find it quite arrogant of you to claim to understand the background and workings of love. The sharpest and wisest of men (and wommen) has tried to decrypt this phenomena for ages, and now you try to imply that it is easily explained in a few paragraphs? Love is complicated, and this applies among homosexuals as well.

And also something has to be said for separating love and sexual attraction.

It is quite possible that someone can be sexually attracted to men and fall in love with a woman. Which is another reason why I don't like the idea of genetic 'mutation'. Because relationships and sexual preference are by no means two poles of gayness and straightness with bisexuality slap-bang in the middle. People have shades of feelings, different types of feelings, for both sexes. Which makes me think it would be impossible to say "OK, we've found it guys, there's a gay mutaition on this straight gene!"
It is possible for a man to have a crush on another man, whilst still feeling within that he is heterosexual.

Reply 24

frost105

14

I dont believe people are born gay and i dont believe that someone thinks 'hey i'm gonna boink someone of my own sex! :smile:

'

I am open to the idea that people maybe more predisposed to homosexual tendancies due to their genetic make up as I believe that in the next 10 years we will see more into how genetics affects our behaviour. Also genetic influences may account for why people who have been raised very similiarly in the same socio-economic environment grow to be so different.
I do think though that the envoronment that we are in and the relationships we make that shapes us largely into the people that we are. I am not saying that if you are raised by gay parents then you will be gay which i know people will comment on that!

Reply 25

Gnostic XXX

Playing with barby doesn't turn one into a homosexual (indeed why would a normal male want to play with dolls? - I recall as a kid relishing playing war games), but homosexual tendencies (which is linked with an effeminacy of the male, and is empirically the case with many, perhaps most, open homosexuals) can lead to such behaviour being manifested at an early age (hence their desire for dolls)

Behave! What would make a man (or rather a boy) playing with dolls inherently 'abnormal' - that's a social value.
What I was saying was that if you want to use the dubious example of homosexuality being link with effeminacy you could twist it to fit both the nature or nuture theory.

As for the last bit - I don't know where to start! Saying that homosexuality is empirically linked to effeminacy is utter B.S. For the very reason that you cannot empircally measure a social phenomena such as 'effeminacy'. Effeminacy is a social construct not a given object to be empirically measured.

Reply 26

Jonatan

Gnostic XXX

I was talking about sexual impulse, not love.

And you never ever considdered the possibility that the two may be linked to each other ?

Reply 27

Jonatan

And you never ever considdered the possibility that the two may be linked to each other ?

What?! Of course I have... just because I'm saying there are shades of feelings doesn't mean I don't consider the two to co-exist in certain relationships but it is blatantly true that they can be seperated - never heard of someone shagging someone they don't love?!

Reply 28

Muse

as sexuality is no longer considered discontinuous, i think it's perfectly reasonable to consider it resultant upon a mixture of genetic and environmental factors.

someone could be born with an increased likelihood of becomming homosexual, and the environmental factors may exploit this. the nature and frequency of 'mutations' could also make a difference to the percentage chance a person has of being gay.

Reply 29

frost105

14

timeofyourlife

as sexuality is no longer considered discontinuous, i think it's perfectly reasonable to consider it resultant upon a mixture of genetic and environmental factors.

someone could be born with an increased likelihood of becomming homosexual, and the environmental factors may exploit this. the nature and frequency of 'mutations' could also make a difference to the percentage chance a person has of being gay.

Yey someone who agrees with me!

Reply 30

A0307

7

You know, unless he's being totally sarcastic (and I've missed it), I think I might actually agree with fishpaste on this one. Quite unusual!

Reply 31

Gnostic XXX

There are many types of emotion that fall under the word "love", but let's talk about "romantic infatuation".

Infatuation occurs for a person to bond with another to form a permanent relationship for the purposes (a clever trick of nature that plays with our faculty of reason to hide its true unconscious origins). Sexual attraction will then arise to ensure the reproduction.

Infatuation and lust can thus co-incide, yes, but they can exist separately (one can fuck without infatuation, and one can be infatuated without experiencing lust).

I must stress this again: sexual desire is the method by which our genes dupe us with a carrot into replicating themselves into sucessful generations.

OK then. So what about people that have no desire to have children? Gay, straight, whatever. Are they somehow biologically amiss?

Reply 32

Fleffzilla

3

Humans and dolphins have sex for fun, so sexual attraction in these species is not JUST for reproduction.

Reply 33

Fleffzilla

3

Gnostic XXX

Animals are compelled to sex, and they experience sexual pleasure as a reward for it. The hidden motives (hidden to them, that is) is that sexual pleasure is simply genes' carrot to ensure they reproduce.

Can you not understand that humans and dolphins have sex for fun? Fun, yes, fun, not reproduction. If it was the desire to reproduce, surely contraception would never have been invented.

Reply 34

Jonatan

Gnostic XXX

Animals are compelled to sex, and they experience sexual pleasure as a reward for it. The hidden motives (hidden to them, that is) is that sexual pleasure is simply genes' carrot to ensure they reproduce.

Why then do humans and Dolphins (in contradiction to every other species on this planet) have sex also when they are not fertile (e.g before they oggulate etc). Are you trying to insinuate that evolution has removed the feature of only having sex when theres a chance of getting pregnant from humans just for the fun of it?

Reply 35

Muse

Gnostic XXX

I see what social factors can turn one into a homosexual.

there are loads of decent arguments/studies out there which consider environmental factors to be valid ("Nurture over Nature")

research has even shown that male homosexuality tends to cluster in families and that homosexual males have, on average, a greater number of older brothers than do heterosexual males.

Reply 36

Muse

virtually all of the evidence argues against there being a determinative physiological causal factor and I don't know of any credible researcher who believes that such a determinative factor exists...such factors play a predisposing, not a determinative role...

reference to environmental factors is not even dismissed by the most hard-core gay-gene genetics researchers.

Reply 37