I feel like the opinion no one considers about the EU referendum

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HoldThisL
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I would describe myself as a pretty liberal but nonetheless a Conservative supporter.

Although I didn't vote in the EU referendum, I would've voted leave and I stand by that.

The strange thing is I support most EU laws and regulations, I am pro-migration and I believe in free trade.

I just don't like the EU. It's big. A little expensive. And I don't think it treats it's members equally enough for my liking.

When I saw how close the referendum result was I thought good, we'll leave the EU but remain members 'through the back door' in order to please the sizable minority who voted remain.

But no. My main man Cameron had to resign leaving it to Theresa to largely screw everything up in an unforeseen way (at least to me). I did like Theresa and was going to vote for her for leader except members didn't get to vote but I didn't like our manifesto this election.

The media reports on the EU referendum result like it's mutally exclusive: you're either a remainer or you support UKIP which I'm totally not, is anyone else out there like me?
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shawn_o1
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Norway, Switzerland and Iceland aren't "in" the EU but they are still bound to EU laws and their trade is largely determined by the EU. would you like Britain to be them - unable to influence European affairs but still be bound to European supremacy?
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3121
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(Original post by shawn_o1)
Norway, Switzerland and Iceland aren't "in" the EU but they are still bound to EU laws and their trade is largely determined by the EU. would you like Britain to be them - unable to influence European affairs but still be bound to European supremacy?
You’re right that they don’t have a seat at the table and hence don’t have a direct input but to say they don’t have any influence or indirect input is just completely misguided.
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HoldThisL
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(Original post by shawn_o1)
Norway, Switzerland and Iceland aren't "in" the EU but they are still bound to EU laws and their trade is largely determined by the EU. would you like Britain to be them - unable to influence European affairs but still be bound to European supremacy?
I wouldn't like the UK to be in that situation but I would prefer that over no free trade, tough immigration rules and the quasi-accidental legalising of lots of bad things currently prevented by EU law.
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HoldThisL
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(Original post by bbcexposed)
Pro immigration LOL

You mean you support the democide of our populations and call those that oppose it as nazis and fascists?
I find it hard to rationalise anti-immigration views even if some people don't, but I respect your opinion.
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IamJacksContempt
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(Original post by bbcexposed)
No this is the way it is



Europe has been bombarded with non-White immigration has has left it unreconizable


Those who are oppose it are far-right, fascists, nazis, extremists, racists bigots

Those who support it are the good guys

Am I wrong?

It's absolute madness this is what they've put into your heads when you're supporting refugees welcome and open borders, you're killing your people.
If you don't want people to call you a Nazi then you should probably try not sound like a Nazi.
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Joep95
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You say yourself you want to remain a member but through the back door that isn't leaving
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ByEeek
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(Original post by HoldThisL)
But no. My main man Cameron had to resign leaving it to Theresa to largely screw everything up in an unforeseen way (at least to me). I did like Theresa and was going to vote for her for leader except members didn't get to vote but I didn't like our manifesto this election.
Of course Cameron left. The task can not be done without screwing it up. Imagine trying to remove the living room of your house without making a mess. I am sure we will come of shining some day but I think Cameron, Davis and May will go down in history as wreckers rather than saviours.
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HoldThisL
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Of course Cameron left. The task can not be done without screwing it up. Imagine trying to remove the living room of your house without making a mess. I am sure we will come of shining some day but I think Cameron, Davis and May will go down in history as wreckers rather than saviours.
You make a valid point and I agree, the Cameron ministry is like to go down as incompetent.

Had Cameron stayed and opted for a softer Brexit I think he could've maintained his favourable-but-not-as-good-as-Thatcher reputation among most Conservatives.
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username334839
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I thought that most of the arguments to leave were solid in principle. Control on immigration, trade deals with emerging economies, who could argue with that? But the main reason I voted remain was because of the incompetency of the Conservative government to deliver a smooth Brexit. It was obvious that Cabinet did not have a plan for Brexit and obvious that much of what the Brexiteers said about leaving was mere speculation with little concrete consensus. It was all too rushed, vague and messy.

Also I knew it would be extremely close, and thus would fracture the country - which it absolutely has. You can feel the protectionism and self-preservation bleeding through the British people now, we are less generous, more selfish, less tolerant and more willing to scapegoat. It will be a cold winter for sure this Christmas...
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ByEeek
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(Original post by HoldThisL)
You make a valid point and I agree, the Cameron ministry is like to go down as incompetent.

Had Cameron stayed and opted for a softer Brexit I think he could've maintained his favourable-but-not-as-good-as-Thatcher reputation among most Conservatives.
Nah. There is no such thing as a soft Brexit. Whatever deal (if any) is made it will be a royal ferk up. Cameron knews this hence his immediate resignation. Why else does May see no challengers lining up? Hers is a poisoned chalice. Cameron's mistake was to allow the referendum in the first place.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by bbcexposed)
Europe has been bombarded with non-White immigration has has left it unreconizable.
Have you actually been? Greece was still serving sovalaki last month and in June, you could still buy Moule Mariniere served by a snotty waiter in Paris. I'm not really sure what you mean - unrecognizable?
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Stunted Elf
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(Original post by HoldThisL)
I would describe myself as a pretty liberal but nonetheless a Conservative supporter.

Although I didn't vote in the EU referendum, I would've voted leave and I stand by that.

The strange thing is I support most EU laws and regulations, I am pro-migration and I believe in free trade.

I just don't like the EU. It's big. A little expensive. And I don't think it treats it's members equally enough for my liking.

<snip>

The media reports on the EU referendum result like it's mutally exclusive: you're either a remainer or you support UKIP which I'm totally not, is anyone else out there like me?
Sure, I voted leave, but it was a difficult one because there are a number of things that I support about the EU. In the end what turned it for me was the undemocratic nature of the EU, and the fact that they lied to us about it when my parents voted to join and they said it was just a trade arrangement and then they cheated and turned it into the EU behind our backs..

No-one in the UK ever voted to join the EU, our parents voted to join the EEC and they misled and cheated us into the EU. That is why I voted leave..

The Irony is that had we had a referrendum to join the EU then I think that I would have probably voted to join :-0

oh, and BTW, there is no conflict between being a Tory and Being Liberal, there are many Liberal Conservatives out there.
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IamJacksContempt
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(Original post by Stunted Elf)
No-one in the UK ever voted to join the EU, our parents voted to join the EEC and they misled and cheated us into the EU. That is why I voted leave..

The Irony is that had we had a referrendum to join the EU then I think that I would have probably voted to join :-0
Sorry but that is utterly moronic.
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Stunted Elf
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(Original post by IamJacksContempt)
Sorry but that is utterly moronic.
Is it moronic to want to leave an organisation that lied and misled an entire generation into joining it in the first place under false pretenses ?

A little history lesson.
The discussion from the 1970's was of forming an economic free trade area called the EEC or 'common market'. British people at the time were concerned that this may be a stepping stone to further political integration and a start down the road to a 'United states of Europe' which the British people clearly did not want and we (to me, my parents generation) were assured that this was not the case. Therefore 'we' agreed to join on the basis of it being about freedom of trade.
Over the following years as treaty after treaty was signed, and each time the critics raised concerns about creeping political integration we were assured that this was not happening...
In 1996 Further treaties were signed, and we were told that this was nothing more than a 'tidying up excercise' as they EEC quietly, without any fanfare renamed the EEC into the 'European Union', hell they even secretly elected a 'European President' and even wrote themselves a 'national anthem'...
Despite all this it took a further 20 years for the penny to really drop, and a disagreement about mass migration for the British people to finally open their eyes to the truth that we had been lied to and misled for forty years.

I may be a liberal and a globalist, but I don't want to belong to an EU based on lies and deception. However had they gone about it differently and more honestly then I may well have voted to join....
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Ninja Squirrel
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Moved to politics.
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DocWho49
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(Original post by HoldThisL)
I would describe myself as a pretty liberal but nonetheless a Conservative supporter.

Although I didn't vote in the EU referendum, I would've voted leave and I stand by that.

The strange thing is I support most EU laws and regulations, I am pro-migration and I believe in free trade.

I just don't like the EU. It's big. A little expensive. And I don't think it treats it's members equally enough for my liking.

When I saw how close the referendum result was I thought good, we'll leave the EU but remain members 'through the back door' in order to please the sizable minority who voted remain.

But no. My main man Cameron had to resign leaving it to Theresa to largely screw everything up in an unforeseen way (at least to me). I did like Theresa and was going to vote for her for leader except members didn't get to vote but I didn't like our manifesto this election.

The media reports on the EU referendum result like it's mutally exclusive: you're either a remainer or you support UKIP which I'm totally not, is anyone else out there like me?
Im just annoyed that May has royally screwed the whole situation up. It's not gonna work for anyone if this continues
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k-92
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I don't understand how you can seriously think 'I just don't like the EU because it's big' is a valid argument...fml people like you are giving Tories a bad name!! We get enough stick as it is without people spouting rubbish like that.
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IamJacksContempt
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(Original post by Stunted Elf)
Is it moronic to want to leave an organisation that lied and misled an entire generation into joining it in the first place under false pretenses ?

A little history lesson.
The discussion from the 1970's was of forming an economic free trade area called the EEC or 'common market'. British people at the time were concerned that this may be a stepping stone to further political integration and a start down the road to a 'United states of Europe' which the British people clearly did not want and we (to me, my parents generation) were assured that this was not the case. Therefore 'we' agreed to join on the basis of it being about freedom of trade.
Over the following years as treaty after treaty was signed, and each time the critics raised concerns about creeping political integration we were assured that this was not happening...
In 1996 Further treaties were signed, and we were told that this was nothing more than a 'tidying up excercise' as they EEC quietly, without any fanfare renamed the EEC into the 'European Union', hell they even secretly elected a 'European President' and even wrote themselves a 'national anthem'...
Despite all this it took a further 20 years for the penny to really drop, and a disagreement about mass migration for the British people to finally open their eyes to the truth that we had been lied to and misled for forty years.

I may be a liberal and a globalist, but I don't want to belong to an EU based on lies and deception. However had they gone about it differently and more honestly then I may well have voted to join....
Even if you and your parents want to interpret it that way, it's still a stupid reason to vote leave. Especially when you backed a campaign which consistently lied to the British people...
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Stunted Elf
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(Original post by bbcexposed)
No this is the way it is
Europe has been bombarded with non-White immigration has has left it unreconizable
Those who are oppose it are far-right, fascists, nazis, extremists, racists bigots
Those who support it are the good guys
Am I wrong?
The danger is that when the mainstream minority fail to speak up about racial issues for fear of being labelled a 'racist' that all we have left are the voices of Nazi's and Facists.

For years i've been hearing decent white folks quietly grumbling to each other about the rising number of foreigners, only to quickly shut up and smile politely at the first coloured person that walks by. We do this because we don't like to be rude and offend any individual. And for years the left has been pointing at those who do speak up and yelling 'racist' at them.

But I think that ordinary middle class Brits have been pushed to a point where we are no longer prepared to keep quiet.

For me this tipping point was reached recently when my 6 year old daughter came home from her school harvest festival crying because the teacher had confiscated her beloved pork pies that she had chosen herself to take to the event. I hadn't given it any thought up to then, it never occurred to me that anyone would be offended by a six year old girl taking a traditional British food item to harvest festival. But the teacher afraid of upsetting the muslims confiscated them so that my daughter was the only kid in the class without a food gift to present. (Some of you will think this is too ridiculous to be true, but I promise that it is entirely true).

But my point is that I think that the sort of people who a few years ago were afraid to speak out are now doing so, people seem less bothered about being called a racist. Only the other day I overheard a couple of mums on the playground talking quite loudly to a group of parents about how they feel like strangers in their own country, I guarantee that a couple of years ago the same conversation would have been held, only it would have taken place in hushed voices in a quiet corner....

Now I think that people are feeling more confident to speak out, partly due to Brexit people are feeling more emboldened to speak their minds. Due to events such as the muslim paedophile rings recently outed in placed like Oldham, Birmingham, and Rotheram the threat of being called out as a racist no longer holds as much fear as it once did.
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