Is anyone having second thoughts about Brexit?

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karl pilkington
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Let's say that China becomes the next superpower or India or Brazil this country needs to align with other countries to have relevance and exercise power in the world. Realistically the whole debate became about immigration when most of the problems from immigration are from immigration from outside the EU. Also, it is true that it is kind of inappropriate to have a plebiscite on such an incredibly complicated and complex issue most of the people who voted don't know what they are talking about.
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ByEeek
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Ummm - yep! At least when we were part of the EU, we were politically aligned with some of the most powerful countries in the world. Post Brexit, we will be a rather small island with no natural resources full of an ageing population. We are already the US' lap dog. I can't see the likes of Brazil, China or India wanting to align themselves with us. Exploit us yes, but not align. What's in it for them?
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Stalin
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Let's say that China becomes the next superpower or India or Brazil this country needs to align with other countries to have relevance and exercise power in the world. Realistically the whole debate became about immigration when most of the problems from immigration are from immigration from outside the EU. Also, it is true that it is kind of inappropriate to have a plebiscite on such an incredibly complicated and complex issue most of the people who voted don't know what they are talking about.
Brazil... the next superpower...

:toofunny:
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Stalin)
Brazil... the next superpower...

:toofunny:
Kind of missed the point of the thread
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Stalin
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Kind of missed the point of the thread
Kind of missed the definition of a superpower
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Ummm - yep! At least when we were part of the EU, we were politically aligned with some of the most powerful countries in the world. Post Brexit, we will be a rather small island with no natural resources full of an ageing population. We are already the US' lap dog. I can't see the likes of Brazil, China or India wanting to align themselves with us. Exploit us yes, but not align. What's in it for them?
He's not talking to moaning remainers. He's asking people who voted Brexit, if they consider his highly unrealistic hypothetical scenario, would any one then disagree with Brexit. The answer is no.
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Bang Outta Order
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The issue was people from EU as well since they adapt a bit better to English society than Asians for example, therefore they'd be competition as well for housing and work, not just non-EU migrants. That being said, if we leave the EU then non-EU people can no longer country hop from Holland to Brussels to France to here so easily. They'll need paperwork and security checks. :party:

If an Asian country becomes a superpower then they wouldn't want to come here anyway. Some Brits might want to go over there, and I don't see how not being in the EU any longer prevents Brits from doing that. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly don't get it, explain.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Bang Outta Order)
The issue was people from EU as well since they adapt a bit better to English society than Asians for example, therefore they'd be competition as well for housing and work, not just non-EU migrants. That being said, if we leave the EU then non-EU people can no longer country hop from Holland to Brussels to France to here so easily. They'll need paperwork and security checks. :party:

If an Asian country becomes a superpower then they wouldn't want to come here anyway. Some Brits might want to go over there, and I don't see how not being in the EU any longer prevents Brits from doing that. I'm not being sarcastic, I honestly don't get it, explain.
LMAO you are obsessed with immigration the point is that in the EU we have more power and influence with Asian countries if they become the next superpower.
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Carbon Dioxide
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Let's say that China becomes the next superpower or India or Brazil this country needs to align with other countries to have relevance and exercise power in the world.
Don't other countries deal well with these nations despite not being a member of any of these fancy-schmancy trading blocks or international unions (the UN excepted)? :confused:
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Kittyboy
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(Original post by Stalin)
Brazil... the next superpower...

:toofunny:
It is a BRIC country. Not too far-fetched really.
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Trinculo
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I haven't changed my mind in the slightest. If anything, the behaviour and attitude of the top people in the EU has confirmed to my mind just how anti-democratic they are and really what a terrible institution it is.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Let's say that China becomes the next superpower or India or Brazil this country needs to align with other countries to have relevance and exercise power in the world. Realistically the whole debate became about immigration when most of the problems from immigration are from immigration from outside the EU. Also, it is true that it is kind of inappropriate to have a plebiscite on such an incredibly complicated and complex issue most of the people who voted don't know what they are talking about.
It's called democracy and unfortunately it happens all the time. I do not believe that non-EU immigration was the main immigration problem. The doctors and nurses coming over from India contribute more to society than the taxi drives who come form Romania.
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nutz99
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
LMAO you are obsessed with immigration the point is that in the EU we have more power and influence with Asian countries if they become the next superpower.
Don't you think that there is a reason why the EU does not want us to leave. We have more clout than any other EU country and are more likely to get deals with USA, Russia, India, China and Australia outside of the EU.

The EU is a sinking ship and once we leave others will follow. This is the right time to get out and ensure we have the best trade deals before all the others jump ship, and they will.

Leaving the EU is about being able to make our own choices. When we joined the EU it was all about trade but since then they have hijacked our laws and enforced open borders. We want our identity back - British first, European second!
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by nutz99)
Don't you think that there is a reason why the EU does not want us to leave. We have more clout than any other EU country and are more likely to get deals with USA, Russia, India, China and Australia outside of the EU.

The EU is a sinking ship and once we leave others will follow. This is the right time to get out and ensure we have the best trade deals before all the others jump ship, and they will.

Leaving the EU is about being able to make our own choices. When we joined the EU it was all about trade but since then they have hijacked our laws and enforced open borders. We want our identity back - British first, European second!
The main reason they don't want us to leave is that we pay so much into it. The question is whether in the next twenty to thirty years it would be detrimental to us being on our own and isolated.
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karl pilkington
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(Original post by Carbon Dioxide)
Don't other countries deal well with these nations despite not being a member of any of these fancy-schmancy trading blocks or international unions (the UN excepted)? :confused:
Yes but the question is do they have less power? Being in a trading bloc with a customs union and a huge population we have more power in the world than just a small country in it's own.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
The main reason they don't want us to leave is that we pay so much into it.
Yeah - its funny really that that part of the debate seems to have evaporated. I am sure one or people were saying something about £350 million additional money for the NHS. Now Theresa May seems to be suggesting nurses will be capped on a 1% pay rise.
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bigstu99
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
Yes but the question is do they have less power? Being in a trading bloc with a customs union and a huge population we have more power in the world than just a small country in it's own.
Being in the trading bloc has been detrimental cutting us off from making trade deals with USA (highest GDP nominal) China (2nd highest GDP nominal) , Japan(3rd highest GDP nominal) as well as Canada and India (one of the fastest growing). Especially when a trade deals with Japan and Canada which both countries have expressed interest in.

And before u say "oh but these deals take 10 years" remember that is because of the other 27 member states also have to negotiate.

Small country on it's own - UK 1 of 5 permanent members of the UN security council, part of NATO etc 5th highest GDP nominal in the world, the top 3 GDP nominal USA China Japan are all outside the EU

do you think that NATO and all UK trade across Europe will cease to exist just because we leave the EU? The EU imposes trade tariffs on any import/export from/to outside the eu its a very protectionist inward looking setup. The whole EU put together is a smaller economy than the USA alone, when u add china japan into the mix as well would you rather want more trade with the whole world as well as europe rather than being stuck in an inwards looking regressive bloc.

(Original post by ByEeek)
Ummm - yep! At least when we were part of the EU, we were politically aligned with some of the most powerful countries in the world. Post Brexit, we will be a rather small island with no natural resources full of an ageing population. We are already the US' lap dog. I can't see the likes of Brazil, China or India wanting to align themselves with us. Exploit us yes, but not align. What's in it for them?
whether we are in the EU or not the island is the same size so we were a small island anyway.

UK is one of 5 permanent member of the UN security council (alongside USA China Russia France

The UK is has the 5th highest GDP nominal in the entire world,
The top 3 highest in order USA China Japan are all outside the EU.

USA has a higher nominal GDP than the whole EU put together. When you add china japan canada everywhere else into the mix would you rather be stuck in a inwards looking, regressive trade bloc such as the EU. Trade with the EU will continue as its mutually beneficial (especially for germany, which is why it won't stop)

Are you one of those uneducated people who thinks that leaving the EU means there can be no trade with the EU. It is extremeley beneficial for them to keep the trading arrangements the same (especially for germany, which is why stopping it will not happen) Do you think that all our alliances with other nations, and NATO disappears just because we leave?
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AnIndividual
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If you're worried about whether countries will be willing to align themselves with us I frankly can't see brexit making that much of a difference. Firstly, if we were still in the EU they would be aligning themselves with a whole bunch of other countries besides us, and thus suggesting that Britain would have an individual advantage is a bit far-fetched.

Moreover, I believe that Brexit will allow for better relations with the Anglo-sphere which is (and I believe will still be in 50 years) the most important economic and cultural zone (if you can call it that) on the planet. China and Japan are both sitting on massive population bubbles, India is too factious to become a proper super-power for the time being, and Brazil suffers from being an enormous cultural isolate (it is the only Portuguese speaking country in South America).
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Retired_Messiah
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Sometimes I think I might've actually been inclined to be more leave side if some of the more coherent brexit plans flying around now were flying around more publicly before the referendum. It was all sort of overshadowed by the weird "350 MILLION TO THE NHS YES" bs tho

I think at the end of the day we'll live either way

(Original post by karl pilkington)
Let's say that China becomes the next superpower or India
Spoiler:
Show

INDIA SUPERPOWER 2020
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nutz99
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(Original post by karl pilkington)
The main reason they don't want us to leave is that we pay so much into it. The question is whether in the next twenty to thirty years it would be detrimental to us being on our own and isolated.
You seem to be overestimating the power of the EU and underestimating the power of the UK. There are plenty of countries that want a trade agreement with us but there has always been one stumbling block - the EU. Now we can get rid of the millstone around our neck.
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