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Just a reminder 9/11 led to the war in Iraq which killed 500,000+ Iraqi civilians

Original post by satisfactionatlast

Only uneducated ignorants such as yourself think like this.

I have seen many claims like this, but have yet to see one actually carry on and successfully explain why ISIS are not following a literalist and unmodernised version of Islam.

Care to have a go?

Reply 81

Tsr virus

2

@QE2 lol u internet gangster

Reply 82

Tsr virus

2

Original post by QE2

I have seen many claims like this, but have yet to see one actually carry on and successfully explain why ISIS are not following a literalist and unmodernised version of Islam.

Care to have a go?

i will find u and i will boot u offline leeeel

Reply 83

Tsr virus

2

Original post by QE2

I have seen many claims like this, but have yet to see one actually carry on and successfully explain why ISIS are not following a literalist and unmodernised version of Islam.

Care to have a go?

first of all there is no modernized version of Islam so they can second of all u cant be calling the whole of Islam bad because a bunch of d*ck heads that dont know what their doing and have been brainwashed into thinking they are doing right its like me calling all Christians racist scumbags because the KKK is a Christian group so no so all people and all different groups of people have good and bad people.
good night

Reply 84

satisfactionatlast

20

Original post by QE2

I have seen many claims like this, but have yet to see one actually carry on and successfully explain why ISIS are not following a literalist and unmodernised version of Islam.

Care to have a go?

I'm not an Islamic scholar but here's a moderate Muslim's opinion on this:

ISIS are violet terrorists who bomb and murder non-Muslims .. Islam DOES NOT say that
ISIS murder homosexuals .. Islam DOES NOT say that
ISIS kill non-Muslims in the name of Islam .. Islam DOES NOT say that

Finally, remember this: It's ISIS against the world, not Muslims against the world

You can easily find this online as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3493741/How-ISIS-going-against-Islam-s-teachings-Texts-suggest-Muslim-prophet-wanted-Christians-protected-defended-claims-expert.html

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 85

QE2

20

Original post by Tsr virus

first of all there is no modernized version of Islam

Of course there is. The vesion taught in many western mosques and madressahs completely omits the stuff about slavery, sex slaves, wife beating, etc.
I have had discussions with Muslims who were convinced that such things were not permitted in Islam and were unaware of the relevant verses or hadith.
That, my friend, is modernisation or even revisionism.

u cant be calling the whole of Islam bad because a bunch of d*ck heads that dont know what their doing and have been brainwashed into thinking they are doing right

But I dislike Islam because of what is in the Quran and sunnah, not because of how individual Muslims behave - because they mostly behave differently to each other.

its like me calling all Christians racist scumbags because the KKK is a Christian group

Except that the KKK is a white supremacist political movement, established to retain the power of Southern plantation owners after the Civil War. It was not founded as a religious movement on religious principles.

so no so all people and all different groups of people have good and bad people.

Very true. But that has nothing to to with explaining why ISIS are not "Islamic". Which is what I asked for in the post you replied to.

Reply 86

satisfactionatlast

20

Original post by QE2

Of course there is. The vesion taught in many western mosques and madressahs completely omits the stuff about slavery, sex slaves, wife beating, etc.

Are you high? This was NEVER Islam's teachings.

Reply 87

username2763536

15

Original post by Stalin

This has nothing to do with the fact that the United States' intervention caused the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Who gave Saddam the biological and chemical weapons he used on the Iraqi Kurds?

You said there were no WMD I was merely pointing out that actually there were.And the US knew that because they gave them to him.The deaths came because sunni muslims cannot seem to coexist peacefully with shia muslims.

Reply 88

edd522

10

Original post by satisfactionatlast

Are you high? This was NEVER Islam's teachings.

lol

Reply 89

edd522

10

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

So you think incest in inherently bad? Remind me again, according to your religion, who Adam and Eve's children had to have sex with to keep humanity going?

rekt

Reply 90

QE2

20

Original post by satisfactionatlast

ISIS are violet terrorists who bomb and murder non-Muslims .. Islam DOES NOT say that

Islam DOES say that non-Muslims should be killed under certain conditions - basically, if they refise to submit to Islam.
Ibn Kathir's tafsir of verse 9:5 states that "This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam".

Muhammad said "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, if they submit to Islam, then they save their lives and property from me"

ISIS murder homosexuals .. Islam DOES NOT say that

The Islamic punishment for homosexuality is death.
https://islamqa.info/en/38622

ISIS kill non-Muslims in the name of Islam .. Islam DOES NOT say that

The Quran and sunnah contain many passages saying that certain people may be killed, almost all of the 'non-Muslims". These deaths are therefore "in the name of Islam".

Finally, remember this: It's ISIS against the world, not Muslims against the world

ISIS are Muslims (although they are not representative of all Muslims)

You can easily find this online as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3493741/How-ISIS-going-against-Islam-s-teachings-Texts-suggest-Muslim-prophet-wanted-Christians-protected-defended-claims-expert.html

ISIS, because they follow a literalist interpretation and reject anything that constitutes bidah ("innovation", modification of or addition to what is in the Quran and sunnah), will simply reject anything that lies outside of the Quran and sunnah. That article is about letters attributed by historians to Muhammad but not contained in the Quran or sunnah.

If the sunnah says that people must submit to Islam to protect their lives, an ancient letter in a monastery in Sinai isn't going to change that. Moreover, if any Muslim claims that it does, ISIS would simply accuse them of innovation an subject them to "severe punishment".

Reply 91

QE2

20

Original post by satisfactionatlast

Are you high? This was NEVER Islam's teachings.

Oh dear, another one!
Funny that you earlier called critics of Islam "uneducated ignorants". Careful with that irony, it burns.

Slavery is explicitly permitted many times in the Quran and sunnah. It's not like it's just one verse or some obscure hadith!

"When the question is asked: why does Islam permit slavery? We reply emphatically and without shame that slavery is permitted in Islam" - https://islamqa.info/en/94840

There are three verses in the Quran, and at least four sahih hadith that explicitly allow Muslims to have sex with their female slaves/captives. 4:24, 23:6 and 33:50. The term "those whom your right hand possesses" means "slaves/captives". Various tafsir confirm this...
Al Jalalayn - those whom God has given you as spoils of war, from the disbelievers, [whom you have] taken captive
Ibn Kathir - the slave-girls whom you took from the war booty are also permitted to you
Ibn Abbas - those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war

The hadith describe occasions where Muhammad's troops were having sex with their female captives and asked him about coitus interruptus as they were worried that getting them pregnant would affect their resale price, and some were worried that the women's husbands were still alive, so Muhamamd revealed the verse allowing sex with a married slave to be lawful (4:24).

Wife beating is permitted as a final punishment for disobedience by verse 4:34.

With all due respect, if you are going to follow or defend a religion it is probably a good idea to find out what it actually involves first.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 92

username2763536

15

Original post by satisfactionatlast

I'm not an Islamic scholar but here's a moderate Muslim's opinion on this:

ISIS are violet terrorists who bomb and murder non-Muslims .. Islam DOES NOT say that
ISIS murder homosexuals .. Islam DOES NOT say that
ISIS kill non-Muslims in the name of Islam .. Islam DOES NOT say that

Finally, remember this: It's ISIS against the world, not Muslims against the world

You can easily find this online as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3493741/How-ISIS-going-against-Islam-s-teachings-Texts-suggest-Muslim-prophet-wanted-Christians-protected-defended-claims-expert.html

by your logic places like saudi arabia or Iran are not islamic as well.Don't they also have the death penalty for homosexuality?And what about apostasy? Whats the sentence for that? I hope you are not going to claim that Saudi arabia is not an islamic country.And if it is islamic then so is ISIS.

Reply 93

HabibSyed

16

Original post by QE2

Which parts are they following incorrectly?

Perhaps it is the majority of Muslims who are not following Islam correctly?

Example:
The Quran and sunnah allow the use of female captives for sex.
ISIS use female captives for sex and cite the Quran and sunnah as justification.

Who is following Islam more correctly in this respect, those who claim that using female captives for sex is permitted in Islam, or those who say it is not?

Islam does not permit for female captives to be raped. What it does say it that female captives are permitted to be among the range of woman in which you may marry. Like for example, you can't marry your mother, sister, ect... That verse merely says that if both partners are willing, it is permissible for a man to marry a female among the captives. Not that a man can just start raping one of the captives willy nilly. Like we've been saying for years, it is ISIS who've taken the Quran out of context.

Reply 94

QE2

20

Original post by HabibSyed

Islam does not permit for female captives to be raped.

I never mentioned "rape". I said "used for sex". It is international law that states that using slaves or prisoners for sex is "rape", regardless of "consent" as a captive is not deemed capable of giving free and informed consent due to the nature of their position.

What it does say it that female captives are permitted to be among the range of woman in which you may marry.

Yes, and those with whom sex is lawful (esp 23:5-6)

That verse merely says that if both partners are willing, it is permissible for a man to marry a female among the captives.

There is nothing in those verses about obtaining consent. But then, according to sheikh Dr Jonathan Brown, "consent is not required for lawful intercourse".

Not that a man can just start raping one of the captives willy nilly.

If you look at the sahih hadith on the subject, you will see that this is exactly what was going on.

"We took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives" http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/136-Sahih%20Muslim%20Book%2008.%20Marriage/11334-sahih-muslim-book-008-hadith-number-3371.html

"We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them" https://muflihun.com/bukhari/62/137

"We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?" https://muflihun.com/bukhari/34/432

"Some of the Companions of Apostle of Allaah were reluctant to have relations with the female captives because of their pagan husbands. So, Allaah the exalted sent down the Qur’anic verse “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand posses.” https://sunnah.com/abudawud/12/110

Like we've been saying for years, it is ISIS who've taken the Quran out of context.

With all due respect, it seems that it is you who is taking it out of context, at least in this respect.
Do you have any other examples of ISIS's "un-Islamic" behaviour?

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 95

Rabbit2

18

Original post by Quantex

While you are correct, it is worth noting that in the build up to the 2003 Iraq Invasion, the argument that removing Saddam would create a power vacuum and result in internecine violence was brought up frequently.

So, while thr creation of ISIS may have been unforseen, the violence in the afternath of the invasion was entirely predictable. It is obvious that little planning was done to prevent it, and the USA and it's allies helped create the perfect environment for ISIS to eventually flourish.

The history of Western intervention in the Middle East is one of ****ing up and then trying to shift the blame. Until Western countries learn to take responsibility for what they unleash, we will just see such events repeated.

That is quite true! A major work of idiocy was drawing random lines on a map [between WW1 and 2, and deciding that everyone who lived inside the line would be one country or another. I lived in the near east for nearly 3 years. EVERYTHING is tribal - absolutely everything!! We had 10 or 12 different tribes represented in our work force of locals. They were constantly bickering and fighting. It was like a bunch of 6 yr old girls bickering over which one had the prettiest socks. Every 4 to 8 days, our site chief [another american - but unlike me - a linguist, not an engineer], would have to get 2 to 5 of them into his office, and read the riot act to them & threaten to cut off their pay. Only this would get them to co-operate in the slighest manner. I was very often asked (by the local work force), why one - or the other - of my staff worked for me. In the near east, you only work for someone if you know their relatives, or they know yours. The locals knew that i was from the D.C. area, and two of my staff (of 5) were from California. They knew enough US geography to know that that was nearly opposite ends of the country, and they were amazed that i could get these guys to do anything. They had trouble believing it, when i told them that at least once a year i had to write a 'fitness report' on each employees performance. My employees wanted a promotion, so they would get more money, so they wanted to please me - so i would write them a good fitness report. This was way beyond anything they had ever considered. They live in a different galaxy!! Cheers.

Reply 96

username358506

20

Original post by QE2

I agree that the invasion was unjustified and badly planned. But the decision of the various sectarian factions to embark on an orgy of killing was entirely their own. They didn't have to.

When a Sunni blows himself up in a Shia mosque, that was not caused by the coalition. It was caused by centuries-old hatred.

Were these mass killings fuelled by sectarianism happening as frequently under Saddam's rule?

Reply 97

username358506

20

Original post by Robby2312

You said there were no WMD I was merely pointing out that actually there were.And the US knew that because they gave them to him.

Where are the WMDs?

The deaths came because sunni muslims cannot seem to coexist peacefully with shia muslims.

How many Sunnis and Shias were being killed by one another under Saddam's rule?

Reply 98

Dysf(x)al

20

Original post by zezno

Goodnight

Yes, and Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto led to the Cold War which nearly led to total nuclear war. Welcome to the Butterfly Effect.

Reply 99

Rabbit2

18

Another thing to bear in mind is that ALL of ISIS are "civilians"!! Absolutely 100%!! This is because [according to Geneva], in order to be "military" i.e. NON-civilian, you must be a "uniformed military force, fielded by a recognized national government, and subject to that government's control. Go ahead, read the Geneva text!! You will see that i'm right!! That may not be 'politically correct' or 'extreme left wing', but it's correct. Cheers. .

Just a reminder 9/11 led to the war in Iraq which killed 500,000+ Iraqi civilians

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