The Student Room Group

Racism in UCAS selection process?

would not it be a more fair system if, instead of giving your name to the uni when applying through ucas u just had a single number that identified you in front of the admissions tutor. All the other qualifications and personal statement etc.
would obviously stay the same, however the universities would not actually know your name or nationality or religion until they actually give you an offer. I was thinking what use it it for uni's to know your religion etc..
when you apply as it does not well should not make any difference to ur application.
In my opinion despite showing that they regard promoting ethnic minortites as very important there is still alot of racism faced by the ethinc minority students who apply to top universities, like oxbridge, meaning the students with equal if not more potential do not go in because of that discrmination big time.

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What about having to affix a photo to the Cambridge and Oxford application forms then?

Tbh, I don't think it's a major issue. If you're this paranoid, how on earth do you expect to get a job?

I hate to say it, but being from an ethnic minority is probably bonus points (as far as Oxbridge is concerned) - if anything.
and i supose your saying this becaiuse you do belong to an etnic minority and are joining oxbridge this yr. But anyway it is not about paranoya, its about fairness. And its not about just how i feel or how '''paranoid'' i am it is about how fairly all the students are trated and ethin minorit kids with even more potential than the other ones face a major disadvantage, and in this ''fair society'' this should not happen.
By having just a number to represent you i mean to say that you would not have to attach a foto to the application form either
Reply 3
i think most people would be liked to known personally. i mean, they do want to know wheather ure a suitable candidate, they want to get to know u,not a number!.
Reply 4
To be honest I don't think there really is any significant racism in the selection process. Universities just want the best students, it is not in their interests to take worse students for other reasons (due to discrimination or otherwise), as this can lower their success rate, increase their dropout rate, and mean they get less money.

It seems like every time someone of an ethnic minority with good grades is rejected from Oxbridge etc. somebody has to draw the racism card. They somehow forget about the thousands of other students with grades as good or better, and inevitably any white people who were also rejected.

UCAS applications are actually done by number anyway, just personal information is not witheld as you suggest. However, there is no sure way of knowing what effect withholding it would have, and it is just as likely that the number of places allocated to members of ethnic minorities would actually go down. This may infact be the case, as "positive discrimination" appears to be seen as acceptable at present, and so witholding information such as race/religion may prevent it and cause the number of places given to minorities to lower to its natural level.
Reply 5
princess

In my opinion despite showing that they regard promoting ethnic minortites as very important there is still alot of racism faced by the ethinc minority students who apply to top universities, like oxbridge, meaning the students with equal if not more potential do not go in because of that discrmination big time.


an institution only requests ones religion or ethnicity for the sake of admissions quotas. admissions quotas to FAVOUR minority groups. as such minority groups will obtain a certain number of places irrespective of their ability or potential when compared to white indigenous Britons. how is this permissive of racism against minorities? and how can there subsequently be "still alot of racism faced by the ethinc minority students who apply to top universities"

its also worthing noting that admission to an institution, and particuarly Oxbridge, is a great deal more than obtaining grades.
Reply 6
princess
and i supose your saying this becaiuse you do belong to an etnic minority and are joining oxbridge this yr. But anyway it is not about paranoya, its about fairness. And its not about just how i feel or how '''paranoid'' i am it is about how fairly all the students are trated and ethin minorit kids with even more potential than the other ones face a major disadvantage, and in this ''fair society'' this should not happen.
By having just a number to represent you i mean to say that you would not have to attach a foto to the application form either


The problems with this are that if people are racist then they will just reject people after interview with oxbridge. I am not sure that there is a racist under current but if there is then this would be a fact. Also universities may need to comunicate with you in which case haveing a number would seem very inpersonal and it would be hard to contact people.
Notice that you can put yourself as English, Welsh and Scottish rather than British.
princess
and i supose your saying this becaiuse you do belong to an etnic minority and are joining oxbridge this yr.

Incorrect.

But anyway it is not about paranoya, its about fairness.

Shouldn't it be about transparency too? Implementing some of the measures suggested presupposes that admissions tutors are racist and discriminatory in their intentions. I don't have any evidence to prove or counterprove this - although I don't really believe this to be the case, personally.

The university admissions system is a lot more colour blind than a job interview at a City law firm, or an interview with your bank manager.
I haven't applied to uni or anything yet as I've just started my AS levels, so I'll be applying next year, and personally I wouldn't want to be known to everyone as just a number. You could say this is because I'm white and British, but I think it would be far too impersonal otherwise and I highly doubt that any admissions tutor would reject an applicant solely on the ground of his/her race. They just need that information to compile statistics, which is also why you have to fill out a form like that for jobs. I think racism is blown out of all proportion these days and it only seems to work one way- if, for example, someone from an ethnic minority attacked a white, it would just be classed as assault, but if it was the other way around, it would be 'racial' assault. If anything, ethnic minority candidates are MORE likely to get a place than whites of similar ability and potential, not LESS, because of 'positive discrimination', which I also think is a complete joke. I'd want to be accepted not because I was white or black, British or Asian, but because I truly deserved to be, and I don't think race should even come into it. It really annoys me when people from an ethnic minority group who don't get a place or job they applied for cry racism- they can't seem to accept that maybe, just maybe, they simply weren't good enough!
Reply 10
There is very little racism against ethnics these days, apart from the positive discrimination that they so blatantly receive. Stop moaning about how racist things are, because it only increases the positive discrimination and raises the ridiculous level that political correctness has reached.
i don't care whether someone is black or white or bright bloody purple, just stop going on about it.
Reply 11
I didn't think information about your ethnic group was passed onto admissions tutors, only to UCAS for statistical purposes. Though I guess this is irrelevant if your name is a giveaway.

But yeah, like everyone else has said, the admissions tutors knowing your ethnic background will probably work in your favour; if not, then their rejection will be on perfectly reasonable grounds.
princess
and i supose your saying this becaiuse you do belong to an etnic minority and are joining oxbridge this yr. But anyway it is not about paranoya, its about fairness. And its not about just how i feel or how '''paranoid'' i am it is about how fairly all the students are trated and ethin minorit kids with even more potential than the other ones face a major disadvantage, and in this ''fair society'' this should not happen.
By having just a number to represent you i mean to say that you would not have to attach a foto to the application form either


That wouldn't work...anyone could then turn up to your oxbridge interview! And then they have no idea if it's your potential they're assessing!
Reply 13
On sports day at school, if you didn't win the egg and spoon race would you assume it was because you were from an ethnic minority? If you failed your exams, would you think it was because you're from an ethnic minority?

So why does everyone say it's rascism when people from ethnic minorities don't get into Oxbridge?
Mysticmin
That wouldn't work...anyone could then turn up to your oxbridge interview! And then they have no idea if it's your potential they're assessing!

Good point, I hadn't thought about this. On a similar note, there was a feature article in the press a few months ago, about people getting their cousins to sit the 11+ exam! (So it does, and probably would, happen). Some people are just cheeky to the extreme.
Reply 15
juno_the
On sports day at school, if you didn't win the egg and spoon race would you assume it was because you were from an ethnic minority? If you failed your exams, would you think it was because you're from an ethnic minority?

So why does everyone say it's rascism when people from ethnic minorities don't get into Oxbridge?


Everyone who gets rejected manages to find something or someone to blame.
Reply 16
Leaby
I didn't think information about your ethnic group was passed onto admissions tutors, only to UCAS for statistical purposes.


I'm sure Pencil Queen said something like that at some point. I'd search for it, but I'm lazy.
To be honest, I'd rather be discriminated against than exchange my name for a number...Just me?

Racism like the biggest excuse of all and really people need to stop using it. People are starting to become tired of people claiming racism to the point of inducing real racism.

I'm starting to think these days that all this pussyfooting around race is making things worse. Especially ridiculous crap like not being able to call a blackboard a blackboard anymore. I mean, how pathetic is that?? It just makes things worse! Things like that are just taking the piss outta the real issues at hand.

Positive racism is as bad as normal racism. I say this because a) It's obviously unfair b) People start thinking they're actually better than they are c) The unfairness may cause resentment, which might cause more racism or perpetuate racist views.

Ethnic information is meant to be just for statistical purposes aye. Same with jobs. Obviously, if a tutor really cared enough to track down this information for every single student they get an application from they'd prolly get bored or someone would notice. There are hardly any admissions tutors like this around. Admissions tutors are well used to the idea that Britain is a much more cosmopolitan nation. If u think that they haven't noticed: go be a student at Macdonalds. They can't fight it. They might have tried in like the 70's or summin but really, there's not much avoiding the fact for these guys that being black doesn't make u a worse or better student than a white one.

I'd just like to say finally that the pressure on institutions now to be seen as "multicultural" again makes things worse. I spose it's hard to get the balance really.
Reply 18
DavioSenBoo
Especially ridiculous crap like not being able to call a blackboard a blackboard anymore.


What??? :eek:

I suppose the only way of avoiding both positive and negative discrimination would be to cover someone's ethnic background completely - yes, by giving someone a number; but why not just call in Big Brother while we're at it?

Besides, the best way to know if someone's appropriate for an offer (job/university place/whatever) is to interview them... What are they supposed to do, wait behind a screen and let someone else speak for them?? :confused:
Yeah, it's chalkboard now, just like gingerbread men don't exist anymore.

I think the best way is to just leave the system as it is. People aren't going to learn to get along if they hide from each other.