Can i take a sandwich undergraduate and do a masters? Watch

lovefish01
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Hi im a mature student taking an access to Higher education Science this year with a view to starting a Zoology undergraduate and masters next. Im looking for a bit of advice and further clarification in order to apply for the correct university placement choice. My heart was set on studying a 4 Year sandwich course with a year studying abroad or a year placement on the third year and then finish with a masters in the fifth year. However i have been told today by a friend there would only be financial support for four years study meaning if i wanted a masters id have to forego the sandwich course to do the straight four years masters.
I have found zero information regarding this subject online. Hence i have come here hoping for advice.
Can i do what i want to do with funding?
How much difference does taking the masters vs the placement make? Which would make the most difference with regard to employment once the four years ends?
Do i need the masters to take a post grad/PHd after/later on?
Any and all advice would be greatly welcome as im now super confused and really need to start having a concrete idea of what course i want to do and where i want to study it asap.
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returnmigrant
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Masters degrees are postgraduate degrees - they are not funded in the same way as an undergraduate degree.

You can get 4 years undergraduate funding from Student Finance - that will cover a 3 year degree with an additional year (placement, study abroad, whatever). Once you have your undergrad degree you then do a postgraduate course - there is only a partial loan for Masters degrees that just about covers you fees, no extra money for maintenance.
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lovefish01
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Ah right i didn't know that right so there is financial support for a masters (postgraduate). If i took the sandwich course i really want to do I would still be eligible for a masters but id need to work or teach or find other ways to fund my way through the course as the funding is significantly reduced.
Might i also ask how does a PHd matches up in the undergraduate/ postgraduate scheme of things. I just thought they tagged on one after the other but it seems after learning this i might be wrong. I really dont know a lot about the way uni works and so am grateful for your feedback
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returnmigrant
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Suggest you get to Uni and do your undergrad course first. You might find thats tough enough and not want to attempt postgrad at all.
And, in few years the entire funding situation could be totally different anyway. Once you get to Uni you will pick up on what postgrad is all about and what you could do next if you still want to.
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PQ
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(Original post by lovefish01)
Hi im a mature student taking an access to Higher education Science this year with a view to starting a Zoology undergraduate and masters next. Im looking for a bit of advice and further clarification in order to apply for the correct university placement choice. My heart was set on studying a 4 Year sandwich course with a year studying abroad or a year placement on the third year and then finish with a masters in the fifth year. However i have been told today by a friend there would only be financial support for four years study meaning if i wanted a masters id have to forego the sandwich course to do the straight four years masters.
I have found zero information regarding this subject online. Hence i have come here hoping for advice.
Can i do what i want to do with funding?
How much difference does taking the masters vs the placement make? Which would make the most difference with regard to employment once the four years ends?
Do i need the masters to take a post grad/PHd after/later on?
Any and all advice would be greatly welcome as im now super confused and really need to start having a concrete idea of what course i want to do and where i want to study it asap.
Undergraduate funding lasts for the length of your course plus a gift year to restart or repeat.

If your undergraduate degree is 3 years that means 4 years funding. If you're on a 4 year sandwich course then that means you get 5 years funding (although funding for your placement year will be low unless you're on a recognised unpaid placement).

Funding for postgraduate courses is separate. The only thing from undergraduate that affects eligibility is if you take an undergraduate masters degree (MSci/MBio etc). In that case SFE will not fund a second masters at postgraduate. If your course is an undergraduate masters then it's worth re-evaluating at the end of your second year whether to get a masters or bachelors at undergraduate.
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Indigo&Violet
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See the reply from PQ above - if you do an undergraduate masters course then the masters year will be funded in the same was as your undergraduate years, but you won't get funding for another masters after that.

Undergraduate (or integrated) masters courses are more common in the sciences than other subjects, but most common in the physical rather than biological sciences. Years abroad, on the other hand, tend to be less common in the sciences as the courses have more pre-requisites.

So, you might find a five year Zoology course that includes a placement/year abroad and an MSc, for which you would get five years of undergraduate funding, but there won't be many of them.

As PQ suggests, its worth at the end of two years having a think about whether the integrated masters is right for you. You get more generous living cost support but the trade off is a more general masters, whereas you might find you need/want a more specific postgraduate degree, or even that you don't need an MSc to get on a PhD course in the sciences.
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returnmigrant
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(Original post by stevieb_uae)

many institutions offer undergraduate masters degrees
I'm well aware of that since I teach at an RG Uni.
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PQ
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(Original post by stevieb_uae)
I disagree with you regarding the Masters Element. I have graduated with a MEng and the funding mechanism was no different. Just my first hand experience.

Secondly a Undergraduate masters programme is not treated the same as a post graduate masters.
The point we're making is that if you have an undergraduate masters degree then you are ineligible for a Postgraduate Loan to fund a postgraduate masters. That's why it's important (especially in subjects other than engineering where the MEng is an established route to Ceng status and entry direct to EngD/PhD directly from undergraduate masters is common) to decide whether an undergraduate or postgraduate masters is the best route BEFORE committing to complete an undergraduate masters.
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lovefish01
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Thanks you guys for shedding a bit of light on this rather murky informational area that was confusing me.
So from what i gather i can take a four your undergraduate with a placement year in the third year then get "postgraduate" masters funding which is generally a lower amount of money than if i took a four year undergraduate masters. My tutor suggests i just take the four year undergraduate masters as there is more financial support and the grades required are generally lower to get onto the course than on a straight undergraduate.

So really what i need to know now and its quite subjective is, is the experience i would gain from a sandwich/placement year worth doing vs doing a straight four years undergraduate masters course?!
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PQ
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(Original post by lovefish01)
Thanks you guys for shedding a bit of light on this rather murky informational area that was confusing me.
So from what i gather i can take a four your undergraduate with a placement year in the third year then get "postgraduate" masters funding which is generally a lower amount of money than if i took a four year undergraduate masters. My tutor suggests i just take the four year undergraduate masters as there is more financial support and the grades required are generally lower to get onto the course than on a straight undergraduate.

So really what i need to know now and its quite subjective is, is the experience i would gain from a sandwich/placement year worth doing vs doing a straight four years undergraduate masters course?!
That depends on what you want to do after your degree.

If you're considering a career in academia then an undergrad masters in zoology/life sciences would be a useful start.
If you're more likely to work outside of academia then a work placement year would be a good help.
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by lovefish01)
Thanks you guys for shedding a bit of light on this rather murky informational area that was confusing me.
So from what i gather i can take a four your undergraduate with a placement year in the third year then get "postgraduate" masters funding which is generally a lower amount of money than if i took a four year undergraduate masters. My tutor suggests i just take the four year undergraduate masters as there is more financial support and the grades required are generally lower to get onto the course than on a straight undergraduate.

So really what i need to know now and its quite subjective is, is the experience i would gain from a sandwich/placement year worth doing vs doing a straight four years undergraduate masters course?!
I believe that some four-year undergraduate Master's degrees also offer a year in industry, making them five years in total and giving you the best of both worlds.
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lovefish01
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PQ i would be looking for a more field based research position. Hence my original consideration of a sandwich/placement year in the first place
Id actually prefer the sandwich year but feel the placement year would probably be the more practical course to take.
The field Zoologist i have investigate all have a masters and a Phd which is why i had the quandary of taking the undergraduate masters vs sandwich year in the first place.
@ageshallnot i haven't found any five year courses in Zoology at any of the universities ive looked at a course like that would have been ideal for me.
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by lovefish01)
PQ i would be looking for a more field based research position. Hence my original consideration of a sandwich/placement year in the first place
Id actually prefer the sandwich year but feel the placement year would probably be the more practical course to take.
The field Zoologist i have investigate all have a masters and a Phd which is why i had the quandary of taking the undergraduate masters vs sandwich year in the first place.
@ageshallnot i haven't found any five year courses in Zoology at any of the universities ive looked at a course like that would have been ideal for me.
Have a look at Leeds https://courses.leeds.ac.uk/25812/MB...ters)#section5 It appears to be a four-year MSci and if you go down the page to Study Abroad and Work Placements, you will find that there is the option to spend a year working (or indeed studying abroad).

Newcastle appear to have the same option: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/undergraduate/d...courseoverview and so do Nottingham http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/...i-zoology.aspx. I found these by looking for MSci degrees and then checking the course details to see whether a work year was available - there are probably others but that's up to you to find out!

It might be wise to check directly with the departments that you can do this in practice and whether there are any conditions such as 'working at 2/1 level or above'.
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lovefish01
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Ah great thanks so much for this! i very much doubt id have thought to look or found the study abroad information!
I havent actually checked out any of these unis for zoology. My short list is Sussex,Exeter,Bristol, Bangor,QMUL and Roehampton pretty much in that order. I will check all the courses i was considering again seeing if they stipulate an option to study abroad also. I am actually going to Exeters open day tommorow so if i find nothing i can ask when im there.
I take it a "2/1 level or above" is a high level of study ie meaning you are trust worthy to that uni that your not going to mess around whilst being away.
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lovefish01
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http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/underg...placement-msci found one this would be my number one choice now. Unfortunately looks like Exeter doesnt do anything like this l I shall re review my university choices and try to include as many similar courses to this. Ideally in the south of the country if i can.
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ageshallnot
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(Original post by lovefish01)
Ah great thanks so much for this! i very much doubt id have thought to look or found the study abroad information!
I havent actually checked out any of these unis for zoology. My short list is Sussex,Exeter,Bristol, Bangor,QMUL and Roehampton pretty much in that order. I will check all the courses i was considering again seeing if they stipulate an option to study abroad also. I am actually going to Exeters open day tommorow so if i find nothing i can ask when im there.
I take it a "2/1 level or above" is a high level of study ie meaning you are trust worthy to that uni that your not going to mess around whilst being away.
Some unis offer a year abroad or a year in industry for most/all of their courses and as a result don't bother listing it as a separate course - that's why it can get missed.

Yes, that's pretty much why they do it!

(Original post by lovefish01)
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/underg...placement-msci found one this would be my number one choice now. Unfortunately looks like Exeter doesnt do anything like this l I shall re review my university choices and try to include as many similar courses to this. Ideally in the south of the country if i can.
Yes, that one would certainly tick your boxes. And it isn't all gloom and doom above Watford, you know!!!
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lovefish01
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I know its not all doom and gloom haha However i really love surfing and although getting on a great course that will get me where i want to go in my life is my absolute first port of call. If Surfing can be included then even better hehe
I will ask at the Exeter open day tomorrow. I mean they offer a year abroad on undergraduate they may as you say just not list a five year undergraduate masters on line.
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