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Germany has first far-right party in parliament since WWII watch

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    Edit: Sorry, wrong thread
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    1) The refugees are not refugees. They are economic migrants, like Polish people, Romanians, Bulgarians or even Italians.

    2 ) The refugees are not Syrian.

    3 ) They are difficult to integrate.

    4 ) The German people were never asked.

    5 ) George Soros bankrolls the migration crisis.
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    Since when was putting your own citizens first 'far right'? The only reason AfD exists is because the current government and political parties are not listening to the concerns of their own citizens. Then you got all the lefties moaning and crying about what horrible people the AfD are. No! the only people to blame here are the government and the mess they've created.
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    Does every party not attempt to be "populist"? Bernie Sanders was very populist, yet it's a word only used to describe right-wing parties.
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    We don't need Hitler to return, don't be silly.

    Bu we don't need to import terrorists and have unlimited immigration either.

    Let's find a balance.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Huh? Italians, Poles, Bulgarians, and Romanians are nomadic peoples?
    No. The point is, that Italy, Poland or Bulgaria, signed a contract which allowed their people to come to work to other Union's countries, once they joined the European Union, and even then, they were not allowed to migrate freely before certain time and certain obligations were fulfilled.
    And now hundreds of thousands of people from outside the EU are allowed to get in, even though they are mostly incompatible to European economy, and nobody even verifies their identity!
    It means that economic migrants from outside the EU, are treated with double standards, beneficial to them, only because someone couldn't see the difference between refugees and economic migrants.


    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Right, and that is why the AfD has risen so much. The only other party that is vaguely anti-refugee is Die Linke (well, and the CDU, but that is only in Bavaria), and that is now the #1 issue for Germans.
    Why do you connect a far right party with NSDAP? NSDAP was national-socialist party, it wasn't either right or left. It was a mix of nationalism with left-wing views on economy.
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    Having just come back from Germany/Austria I saw groups of migrants sitting around begging for money off German citizens or tourists. Most were young men who looked physically fit. Not surprised that people are fed up having to deal with Merkel's decision without even being asked and voted AFD.
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    (Original post by Hachik0)
    Since when was putting your own citizens first 'far right'?
    Being pro-nazi is pretty far right... Absolutely astounding people want to pretend AfD, a party whose leader said they should have national pride in nazi soldiers, is anything but far right - they are literal nazi sympathisers.
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    What a load of ignorant, xenophobic, Islamophobic rubbish.

    (Original post by Acend1992)
    1) The refugees are not refugees. They are economic migrants, like Polish people, Romanians, Bulgarians or even Italians.

    2 ) The refugees are not Syrian.
    Wrong.

    Name:  _88578063_chart_top10_origins_of_asylum_seekers_2015.jpg
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    The conflict in Syria continues to be by far the biggest driver of migration. But the ongoing violence in Afghanistan and Iraq, abuses in Eritrea, [...], are also leading people to look for new lives elsewhere.
    (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911)

    Last summer Germany opened its arms to more than a million refugees - the vast majority from Syria and Iraq.
    (http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...135618356.html)

    (Original post by Acend1992)
    3 ) They are difficult to integrate.
    Debatable. Because they're Muslim and don't speak German? Look at refugees from former Yugoslavia, same pre-conditions, they're integrated just fine today. But nobody said that they want to and should stay once the war/aggression is over in their home countries.

    (Original post by Acend1992)
    4 ) The German people were never asked.
    Correct - and we don't need to be asked for our democratically elected government to make the only decision that is acceptable morally and humanitarian. We're not human garbage like Brits and Americans who turn away traumatized people fleeing from war and terror, after all.

    (Original post by Acend1992)
    5 ) George Soros bankrolls the migration crisis.
    Yep, he's investing a fortune to help refugees. Fantastic man.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/20/geor...undations.html
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    (Original post by iodo345)
    Having just come back from Germany/Austria I saw groups of migrants sitting around begging for money off German citizens or tourists. Most were young men who looked physically fit.
    Do your homework. Refugees are not allowed to work in Germany until they have been granted a certain status. This can take years.

    (Original post by iodo345)
    Not surprised that people are fed up having to deal with Merkel's decision without even being asked and voted AFD.
    She made the only decision a decent human being would make and still won the election by over 10%-points. I think she'll be just fine.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Brits and Americans aren't the ones turning away refugees. Austria, Hungary, Poland (except for Ukrainian refugees), etc. all largely closed their borders to refugees, while Italy and Greece are fine with their local fascists going around beating up the refugees who arrive.

    Just for some examples.
    It was a non-exhaustive list. And yes, the ultra right wing governments in Poland and Hungary are definitely human garbage, Austria gets off the hook because they're small and further south.

    Italy and Greece are not 'fine' with their local fascists beating up refugees. What matter is that they take them in which is more than many countries can say.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Are you calling almost all of Europe 'human garbage'?
    Last time I checked those countries accounted for less than 10% of Europe's population, so no.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Italy and Greece don't do anything about the fascists, and since elections draw close, the Italians have started going after the NGOs who are helping refugees, even leaving one NGO ship stranded with refugees on board. As for Greece, they even have a far-right party in the governing coalition.
    Please provide factual evidence of Italian and Greek security forces consistently ignoring and allowing violent attacks on refugees. That's right, you have none, of course.

    Italy's (and the EU's) crackdown on NGOs rescuing refugees from boats is very justified and necessary. These NGOs are rescuing people close to the Libyan coast, motivating more people to attempt the trip in boats that could never make it to Italy.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Even in Germany you have 13% support for the ultra far-right. Then in France, 35% voted for Le Pen. Then in Austria, nearly 50% for the far-right president. Even Sweden has the far-right polling around 20%. Italy, you have the Northern League around 15%, even though it only runs in the north of Italy, in addition to 5 Stars, which is polling much higher. They already have an anti-refugee mayor of Rome.

    This is much more than a mere 10% of Europe's population.
    For starters, AfD is not ultra far-right. That would be NPD, Republikaner, etc.

    I don't give a **** about the population, there have always and will always be uneducated, xenophobic idiots with no conscience - the government knows better and makes the decisions.

    Sum up the share of people voting for these right-wing parties then. Still a small minority in Europe.

    Good thing Wilders LOST the election, Le Pen LOST the election, Hofer LOST the election, May has to side with extremists to stay in power, and AfD got only 12.6% in the country that took in by far the most refugees, is politically completely isolated, and will achieve absolutely nothing in parliament apart from exposing their utter incompetence. The right just can't stop losing.
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    1- I thought the Nazis were more of a centralist group who leant slightly towards the right, just the pinacle of facism.

    2-Could someone tell me more about Die linke?
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    (Original post by GenialGermanGent)

    Good thing Wilders LOST the election, Le Pen LOST the election, Hofer LOST the election, May has to side with extremists to stay in power, and AfD got only 12.6% in the country that took in by far the most refugees, is politically completely isolated, and will achieve absolutely nothing in parliament apart from exposing their utter incompetence. The right just can't stop losing.
    And when they actually do have some kind of power, incompetence and infighting limit the damage they do.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    There is rarely police protection for refugees in the first place!
    You talk like would they need it! Refugees -especially in Germany- are very rarely the targets of attacks. What world do you live in? Oh right, Brexit-Britain...

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    If you think the British are 'human garbage' for being anti-refugee (and all the surveys point to Brits as being one of the most pro-refugee countries in the EU, government and media rhetoric is another matter), then the same must surely apply to, what, 30% of Europe's population?
    Strange then that over half of polls-going Britons decided in favor of a vote that was supported by a campaign run on xenophobia and anti-immigration sentiment. I'd like to see those surveys. You also seem to grossly overestimate the population size of Britain...

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Right wing? I'm talking about anti-refugee people, many of whom still vote for established parties fyi and not just for the specifically anti-islam party.
    Virtually all firmly anti-refugee voters voted for right-wing parties, so their share of votes is proportional to the sentiment in the population. There are no pure anti-islam parties, by the way.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    As ever, the 'dont know/care' bunch make up the majority. But the pro-refugees are an even smaller proportion of Europe's population, and I wouldn't be surprised if west Germans made up the absolute majority of them.
    I could live with that. Glad we agree that those two camps (which welcome/have no problem with refugees) are a large majority.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    May isn't even in the same league as those other people. She is definitely pro-Islam, pro-diversity quotas, and very anti-islamophobia.
    ... but she's glad to push through a Brexit that, again, was won through a campaign run on xenophobia and veiled islamophobia, and she has done nothing to curb the spike in hate crime (most of which is xenophobic or islamophobic) since the Brexit vote.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Just because she's a scumbag doesn't mean she is anti-Islam/refugees. She was rather pro-remain, if you recall, even if she is taking a harder stance to Brexit after the vote. And even then, her main targets are EU immigrants, not refugees
    How has Britain's intake of war refugees changed then since she took power? Exactly. Glad we agree that she's a scumbag, further highlighted by her atrocious flip-flopping, as per your admission.
    .
    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    And you constantly change the goalposts. First you happily say that only a minority of Europeans are anti-islam, then that it doesn't matter, and now you are again happily proclaiming popular support.
    None of these things are mutually exclusive. Popular support (your words, not mine - it's really not that much) can be a minority (a despicable one at that), and it can be irrelevant as long as politicians make wise decisions.
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    Weren't the nazis left wing? They were a 'socialist nationalist party' lol
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    I don't see that it makes any practical difference. They will never get into any form of coalition.

    Gives the "fake news" BBC plenty to foam at the mouth about, I suppose. Their supporters were criticised for wanting to honour German war dead in the two world wars, I noticed. That makes them Nazis apparently. In the first they were no worse than us, and in the second, apart from Waffen SS Divisions and a few individual Wehrmacht war criminals most of the German military were guiltless of war crimes, unbelievably brave, suffering horrendous losses.

    The SS Totenkopfverbande units were a totally different matter of course.

    The Russians committed terrible war crimes too, they murdered Poles and raped maybe a million women at the end of the war. They are allowed to honour their dead, the BBC makes no fuss about that...
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Being pro-nazi is pretty far right... Absolutely astounding people want to pretend AfD, a party whose leader said they should have national pride in nazi soldiers, is anything but far right - they are literal nazi sympathisers.
    They are literally Nazi celebrators


    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    Weren't the nazis left wing? They were a 'socialist nationalist party' lol
    Well done. You've solved 20th century history. Have you considered submitting your thesis to a journal?
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    (Original post by generallee)
    I don't see that it makes any practical difference. They will never get into any form of coalition.

    Gives the "fake news" BBC plenty to foam at the mouth about, I suppose. Their supporters were criticised for wanting to honour German war dead in the two world wars, I noticed. That makes them Nazis apparently. In the first they were no worse than us, and in the second, apart from Waffen SS Divisions and a few individual Wehrmacht war criminals most of the German military were guiltless of war crimes, unbelievably brave, suffering horrendous losses.

    The SS Totenkopfverbande units were a totally different matter of course.

    The Russians committed terrible war crimes too, they murdered Poles and raped maybe a million women at the end of the war. They are allowed to honour their dead, the BBC makes no fuss about that...
    The far left often makes a big fuss of not celebrating the UK's war dead. WWII is about the only war the left "celebrates" that the UK went into. World war one was a complete total waste of human life. Celebrating the Nazi soldiers is like celebrating colonial conquest. At least the left are being coherent in this respect.

    Russia is fine though cos they were commies. It all depends where your true "nationalism" lies. The AFD's nationalism means people should be proud of the feats of their country, even if it means being proud tearing up Europe.

    Also all the other countries that succumb to fascism had resistance movement. Loads of Italians helped allied POWs escape for example (there was a good program about it on TV recently). Germany just seem to totally buy into Nazism. Where was the resistance?


    (Original post by Mathemagicien)

    The west doesn't make a fuss about Russia celebrating the Red Army victory, because to the west it represented a victory against Nazism. Of course, eastern Europe probably makes a bit more of a fuss, because to them it represents the half-century of Russian occupation.
    They were also an ally. Orwell didn't find it hard to get Animal Farm published because the UK was ran by a load of communists. It was ran by a conservatism that needed the Russians as allies.
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    Great example of healthy diversity within the journalistic criteria by media outlets, the mainstream ones apparently focusing on 'the rise of the far-right'. CNN had a poll running, 'are you worried about it'? I'm not so back to Bloomberg for some proper talk on the broader issues and away from all these empty buzzwords, down to real business where the far-right are just another party. Euronews are fairly objective too, Channel 4 News have completely disappeared up their a***s. BBC is too mainstream and Sky have decided to follow, only good to know if the roof is still on. Sky Sports had someone refer to Trump's comments on the anthem as 'ludicrous' whilst reporting on events, they're on a yellow card. Are ITV any good these days?
 
 
 
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