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Is Britain a classless society?
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Original post by JohnGreek
That's about... 6 months less than I spend in the UK. Congrats, you've proven yourself to be less knowledgeable about your own country by your own standard than some random guy
Pretty sure that nothing said so far is a stereotype. No one's angry, either. Just another day, just another forum discussion.
Pretty sure that nothing said so far is a stereotype. No one's angry, either. Just another day, just another forum discussion.
And of course you are not angry! Or negative! That's why you sent your message of hate! It's nothing to do with you, go far far away
Original post by samrichardsonn
When I first hear this question I often thing that it is rather stupid, and that of course we have a class system in the UK but the more I think about it the more conflicted I feel.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
"Classless society"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Original post by JohnGreek
Erm... Sorry, I meant exactly the opposite of what I posted.
It isn't** a classless society, and its class differences are more pronounced than in other European states.
It isn't** a classless society, and its class differences are more pronounced than in other European states.
That's an interesting question.
The UK (England especially) is more class-concerned than other European countries.
Is it more classist? The strength of the independent school system (abundance of private schools and presence of several ultra-elitarian "public" schools) and the relative weakness of the state-funded schools, the monarchy, the aristocracy (concept of peerage, House of Lords and privately owned stately homes), the abundant literature and general media about class and the homogeneity of educational background (public school+Oxbridge) of those in power, past and present, all seem to point in this direction. We can find some of these aspects also in other countries, but to a lesser degree.
Are social differences more pronounced? For the above, I think they are. I've seen some statistics about inequality and the UK and Italy are Europe's worst performers. But it's not just about economic conditions. People from different social classes in the UK attend different schools, play different sports, read different papers (how elitist and expensive is the FT? I think it's an unicum. Or think about Tatler), live in different areas and watch different TV programmes. There are also significantly different "cultures", widespread across the country. Think about chavs. In Italy, you have these subcultural groups in big cities, actually, it's noticeable almost only in Rome (north v south) and Milan, but it's not a big thing, just normality of any big city having rich and poor parts. Most of these things happen in other European countries as well, in which there are strong class differences, but not so sharp as in the UK, in my opinion.
Class tends to always be used by civic nationalists and marxists to undermine ethnic nationalism and white tribal identity. There is no huge class war in this country, native Brits generally have understanding with each other and can tolerate different skills, abilities and personalities. But only within the confines of their white tribal consciousness because nationalism fundamentally is a projection of the family, we think in terms of family, extended family, neighbourhood, country, region, the wider white network. This is why marxists like the BBC love to attack the family tradition.
(edited 6 years ago)
No, we're far from that. The idea has mostly been brought on by the fact that in the past few decades, traditional markers of class distinctions have increasingly broken down (and indeed, so quickly that different generations can't really be compared effectively).
Obviously not when every Prime Minister is privately educated and nearly all attended Oxbridge and Eton.
Original post by ivybridges
Obviously not when every Prime Minister is privately educated and nearly all attended Oxbridge and Eton.
Teddy Heath and Harold Wilson were both good grammar school boys, thank you very much.
What is wrong with you people? Are any of you actually from the U.K? Don't you have any positive things to talk about? Your posts make me sad!
The obvious answer is No. We have a Queen. We have Princes & Princesses, We have Dukes. We have the Rich areas and the Poor areas. So overall, we have Class.
Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.
Teddy Heath and Harold Wilson were both good grammar school boys, thank you very much.
Well of course not all of them are but the vast majority are/were.
Original post by Dominic Smith
What is wrong with you people? Are any of you actually from the U.K? Don't you have any positive things to talk about? Your posts make me sad!
What's wrong with you? It's a thread about class, we talk about class. It's not necessarily a positive or negative thing to talk about, it's just something we happen to have to deal with which is interesting to discuss.
All countries have upper, middle, working and lower class. Systems are designed to keep the 1% at the top. This isn't gna Change as they're the Ones in charge
No its not. if your working class like me you get s**t on, if your middle class your fine and if your upper class its basicly plain sailing. our country judges people heavily by their class. certain people like KATIE HOPKINS even won't let their children play with kids of a lower class and judges kids (their class not their personality) by their name.
Original post by samrichardsonn
When I first hear this question I often thing that it is rather stupid, and that of course we have a class system in the UK but the more I think about it the more conflicted I feel.
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
There is clearly a class system in the UK. Couldn't be more clear. Posh people have vices, poor people have addictions. Posh people steal money (tax fraud, offshores, white collar crime) mainly get a slap on the wrist and often get another high paid job. Poor person steals a TV, suspended sentence or jail and can't get employed because they have a criminal record (seriously, look at the disparity between white collar theft convictions and standard theft).
A personified example happened recently. That upper class student who stabbed a boy and was a coke and MDMA addict - let off because it would 'spoil her chances of becoming a heart surgeon'. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/16/oxford-university-lavinia-woodward-stabbed-boyfriend-may-avoid-jail I challenge you to find any example of working class coke addicts getting off the hook for GBH because of their 'prospects'
Money also buys ways to get around the legal system ie good lawyers and the well off can't shut their faces about how equal everything is and how poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough etc etc. It's the modern equivalent of let them eat cake.
last time I checked Britain was just about the most class-conscious country on planet earth...
Original post by GonvilleBromhead
There is clearly a class system in the UK. Couldn't be more clear. Posh people have vices, poor people have addictions. Posh people steal money (tax fraud, offshores, white collar crime) mainly get a slap on the wrist and often get another high paid job. Poor person steals a TV, suspended sentence or jail and can't get employed because they have a criminal record (seriously, look at the disparity between white collar theft convictions and standard theft).
A personified example happened recently. That upper class student who stabbed a boy and was a coke and MDMA addict - let off because it would 'spoil her chances of becoming a heart surgeon'. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/16/oxford-university-lavinia-woodward-stabbed-boyfriend-may-avoid-jail I challenge you to find any example of working class coke addicts getting off the hook for GBH because of their 'prospects'
Money also buys ways to get around the legal system ie good lawyers and the well off can't shut their faces about how equal everything is and how poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough etc etc. It's the modern equivalent of let them eat cake.
A personified example happened recently. That upper class student who stabbed a boy and was a coke and MDMA addict - let off because it would 'spoil her chances of becoming a heart surgeon'. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/16/oxford-university-lavinia-woodward-stabbed-boyfriend-may-avoid-jail I challenge you to find any example of working class coke addicts getting off the hook for GBH because of their 'prospects'
Money also buys ways to get around the legal system ie good lawyers and the well off can't shut their faces about how equal everything is and how poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough etc etc. It's the modern equivalent of let them eat cake.
“challenge you to find any example of working class coke addicts getting off the hook for GBH because of their 'prospects'”
But isn’t the problem that they have little to no prospects?
Original post by Zxyn
“challenge you to find any example of working class coke addicts getting off the hook for GBH because of their 'prospects'”
But isn’t the problem that they have little to no prospects?
But isn’t the problem that they have little to no prospects?
Exactly.
Poorer people have poorer prospects. This is known. They may as well have written in the judgement 'well she's very well off and intelligent so screw it, her crimes don't matter'. Prospects should have no bearing on judgement. You want to be a heart surgeon? Don't take coke, throw laptops at people and stab them.
Original post by GonvilleBromhead
Exactly.
Poorer people have poorer prospects. This is known. They may as well have written in the judgement 'well she's very well off and intelligent so screw it, her crimes don't matter'. Prospects should have no bearing on judgement. You want to be a heart surgeon? Don't take coke, throw laptops at people and stab them.
Poorer people have poorer prospects. This is known. They may as well have written in the judgement 'well she's very well off and intelligent so screw it, her crimes don't matter'. Prospects should have no bearing on judgement. You want to be a heart surgeon? Don't take coke, throw laptops at people and stab them.
But you don’t think given her intelligence a rehabilitation program would likely be more successful? There are cases where poorer class offenders get off or finish their sentence only to recommit crimes. The main questions asked when making a judgment are did they commit the crime? will they commit this or a similar crime again? And does this make them a threat to society?
I don’t think giving her another chance is the problem, I think not being fair with how they give chances is the problem.
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