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    (Original post by PQ)
    https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/915570818876362752
    "Can I just point out that Theresa May is wearing a bracelet of Frida Kahlo, a member of the Communist party who LITERALLY DATED TROTSKY"
    lol wtf

    she must be a double agent sabotaging the party
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    (Original post by PQ)
    https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/915570818876362752
    "Can I just point out that Theresa May is wearing a bracelet of Frida Kahlo, a member of the Communist party who LITERALLY DATED TROTSKY"
    A desperate cry for help?

    Did she spot Boris Johnson wandering around with an ice pick in hand?
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    (Original post by Quantex)
    A desperate cry for help?

    Did she spot Boris Johnson wandering around with an ice pick in hand?
    He does make jokes about bodies. :afraid:
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    This would have been a more interesting idea:
    https://competitionpolicy.wordpress....a-better-idea/

    Mandate that the 55% of 'sticky' customers who haven't switched for 3 years automatically get taken out of their contracts and invite all the suppliers to bid to supply them as a group (obviously they can subsequently switch if they want to). The lowest bidder wins all of those sticky customers in a block. That's a lot of customers. The auction would force the bidding to the lowest level available that's still profitable for the firms, rather than the current situation where firms take advantage of their sticky customers by fleecing them with prices well above market rates.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Agree that Marxist analysis has never looked more relevant. Corbyn I think would fancy himself a Marxist (didn't he say so recently?) but it's true that neither he nor McDonnell act like classic Marxists, although they may be in this for the long haul - it's always all about positioning, especially for the Trotsky branch. I assume the inner circle are getting ready for the next big crisis, which can't be long in coming now. Usually in the past century or so this was circumvented by major wars, but in the age of nukes, these are harder to organise.
    Economically: they’re Populist social democrats. The economist did a good article a while ago explaining some big differences between Keynesianism and corbynism.

    Socially: they’re Internationalist Marxists.


    The idea that they’re trying to reform capitalism into anything resembling capitalism is nonsense at best.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    If any amount of mild social democratic reforms can not improve the lot of the majority then Marx was surely right? Marx wasn't what we now call Social Democrats. His view of capitalism was that it would always deteriorate and exploit those at the bottom more and more and in order to improve their lot in life we need an entirely different mode of production. The real "Marxists" are not the likes of Corbyn who think we can improve capitalism for the majority via state intervention, that is anti-Marx. The real Marxists are the likes of Philip Hammond, those on the right can only defend capitalism whilst it is deteriorating and not providing all the wonderful things it is supposed to be providing. They have no solutions, their only selling point is that anything else would be much worse. Capitalism is proving Marx right at the moment and the majority of right wing critics of Corbynism are more in line with Marx than the new social democrats like Corbyn who think capitalism can actually be made to work for the majority. The right can only defend the deterioration of the lot of the majority, as that is what capitalism is.

    This would not be true if the right were offering any solutions other than carry on as normal. Or if they actually advocated a system other than capitalism. But they don't.
    The current system is working, just not the way a lot of people are happy with. Things are changing just through technological innovation rather than government action. Also global poverty and violence is falling. Whether or. It this makes people *happy* which is important is a difdeeent question altogether but certainly doesn’t prove Marx right.


    See above: Corbyn is in no way a capitalist in any loose definition of the word- and that’s including if you count Nordic models as capitalist. If Corbyn s a capitalust so was Castro.
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    I don't know if anybody has it but Newsnight just had a picture of the face of Rudd, Hammond and Boris and the pain on it.

    I think Hammond helped himself rushing to her aid but i think Boris and Rudd are probably going to strike.
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    I may be wrong here but I heard Milliband and/or Corbyn proposed something different, I think an energy price freeze instead of a cap.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    The current system is working, just not the way a lot of people are happy with. Things are changing just through technological innovation rather than government action. Also global poverty and violence is falling. Whether or. It this makes people *happy* which is important is a difdeeent question altogether but certainly doesn’t prove Marx right.


    See above: Corbyn is in no way a capitalist in any loose definition of the word- and that’s including if you count Nordic models as capitalist. If Corbyn s a capitalust so was Castro.
    Can you define what you actually mean by capitalism in specific terms? Because just about everyone seems to have their own definitions for what socialism and capitalism are.

    Corbyn's manifesto certainly contained no policies which would overthrow capitalism, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I don't know if anybody has it but Newsnight just had a picture of the face of Rudd, Hammond and Boris and the pain on it.

    I think Hammond helped himself rushing to her aid but i think Boris and Rudd are probably going to strike.
    There is not a chance that the Conservative party will go into an election under the leadership of someone who is reasonably likely to lose their seat.

    Rudd would have to spend a significant amount of time campaigning to keep her seat, never mind campaigning to the country.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    a picture of the face of Rudd, Hammond and Boris and the pain on it.
    Was this the pain of a small child forced to decide between a large bar of chocolate and an even larger ice cream?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    See above: Corbyn is in no way a capitalist in any loose definition of the word- and that’s including if you count Nordic models as capitalist. If Corbyn s a capitalust so was Castro.
    Not clear what makes you think that. Corbyn isn't advocating nationalisation of the banks for example, or the expropriation of land. Perhaps he should be though, but that's a different matter.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Was this the pain of a small child forced to decide between a large bar of chocolate and an even larger ice cream?
    Lol, I think they were reaching for Mt Rushmore, sculpted gravitas, etc. What we actually got was a sort of straining to look admiring whilst trying hard not to doze off.
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    It's a weird speech if you watch it right through. She keeps trying to sound sincere, passionate and warm and not in any way robot like, whilst all the time sounding stiff, uninspiring and robotic.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    This was previously trailed by Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. Both times, the policy idea of price caps was dismissed as 'dangerous socialism', 'a threat to our national way of life', 'Marxist frenzy' and similar terms.
    Many of us still regard the policy, and, increasingly, TM in general in exactly that way.
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    It's interesting how she seemed like a right-wing extremist as Home Secretary, then when she's PM, she's practically standing as a Labour PM.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Many of us still regard the policy, and, increasingly, TM in general in exactly that way.
    It's clearly not 'Marxist' though, which was the claim made by both Cameron and the Daily Mail.

    I somehow doubt Marx and Engel's ambition was to set a cap that private energy firms could charge.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It's clearly not 'Marxist' though, which was the claim made by both Cameron and the Daily Mail.

    I somehow doubt Marx and Engel's ambition was to set a cap that private energy firms could charge.
    Nobody on the right gives a stuff about the substantive content of Marx's or Engels's doctrines, so you're not being clever or interesting by picking us up on our misuse of their names.

    What we obviously mean when we say that is that the policies are too interventionist for our liking.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Nobody on the right gives a stuff about the substantive content of Marx's or Engels's doctrines, so you're not being clever or interesting by picking us up on our misuse of their names.

    What we obviously mean when we say that is that the policies are too interventionist for our liking.
    So the right don't care about intellectual honesty and accuracy then? Great.

    It rather undermines the argument of your side when any policy proposal that is left of centre gets derided as basically Communist/Marxist. It's a bit like how some social justice warriors describe anything they don't like as far-right.

    But alas on to the issue at hand, why is capping energy prices a bad thing? Rather than an ideological answer, why is it practically a bad policy?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So the right don't care about intellectual honesty and accuracy then? Great.

    It rather undermines the argument of your side when any policy proposal that is left of centre gets derided as basically Communist/Marxist. It's a bit like how some social justice warriors describe anything they don't like as far-right.

    But alas on to the issue at hand, why is capping energy prices a bad thing? Rather than an ideological answer, why is it practically a bad policy?
    The right in general doesn't inherently care very much about keeping its language consistent with the details of left wing academic discourse, no. It's not intellectually dishonest because we're obviously not really representing that, having conducted a detailed study of Marx's writings, we've concluded that the man himself would have supported this or that policy. It's used as a shorthand for 'overly interventionist' and is taken as such by its intended audience. It is possible that overuse of the term could be bad in other ways, in the same way that, as you say, SJWs have weakened the impact and meaning of the term 'far right', but that's a separate point.

    I deny your claim that 'practical' positions in politics are better than 'ideological' ones. I am also sceptical about the distinction in the first place. What you think is desirable 'practically' always has an ideological root, and the position that government intervention is justified for a given end is an ideological one in itself.
 
 
 
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