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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Reading again (there are a few news articles) it seems it's ex cabinet ministers (Vazey, Shapps and a few others).

    I too thought she would stay and generally thought it would actually be a good thing (i think the election message was far worse than the messenger) but i have to admit that May's speech was a bit cringe worthy and her refusal to sack ministers suggests she's too fearful.

    She's fortunate that there is a large not Boris group of MP's (i agree, i have seen no evidence in London or his role that he is able to do much beyond give a good speech) and also that Davidson is in the wrong parliament (subject to her cooling off the soft Brexit).

    It's unfortunate (if May was a bit more conservative on tax and spend she's be great) but i think the odds of her going have increased albeit i hope we get a long campaign and not a caretaker.
    The problem with May is she's a bad messenger, you say that the message was the problem in the election and that was true, but all we have to do is look at her and we see the messenger is poor, she seems incapable of defending anything, when the going gets tough she changes direction hence the u-turn on the "dementia tax" when there were sound arguments in favour, hence all the soft left crap to try to win over people who won't vote Tory as long as Corbyn is around, and hence why the utilities cap will be dropped again entirely instead of tweaked to a sensible policy when the backbench revolt happens.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The problem with May is she's a bad messenger, you say that the message was the problem in the election and that was true, but all we have to do is look at her and we see the messenger is poor, she seems incapable of defending anything, when the going gets tough she changes direction hence the u-turn on the "dementia tax" when there were sound arguments in favour, hence all the soft left crap to try to win over people who won't vote Tory as long as Corbyn is around, and hence why the utilities cap will be dropped again entirely instead of tweaked to a sensible policy when the backbench revolt happens.
    I think she actually believes in a lot of the soft left stuff (she's a proper old style one nation conservative) but i agree that she caves and is not prepared to significantly defend her position.

    I do like her narrative, belief in morality and her diagnosis of the problems in society (her Downing Street speech was epic) but i agree with yourself that the solutions are wrong and it's probable that she's not radical enough to solve those problems (hence spending £10bn on extending help to buy for a year rather than radically expanding the starter home idea).
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think she actually believes in a lot of the soft left stuff (she's a proper old style one nation conservative) but i agree that she caves and is not prepared to significantly defend her position.

    I do like her narrative, belief in morality and her diagnosis of the problems in society (her Downing Street speech was epic) but i agree with yourself that the solutions are wrong and it's probable that she's not radical enough to solve those problems (hence spending £10bn on extending help to buy for a year rather than radically expanding the starter home idea).
    I liked her narrative too, and she seemed tge most sensible option- but she didn’t back it up and has the personality of a puddle remember the fields of wheat line?


    In fact, her idea of helping me the JAMs was getting rid of Free School Meals, kill foxes and the ‘dementia tax’. All she has to do to win that election was say that we were leaving the EU and that immigration would be cut. She’s hopeless and needs to go.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think she actually believes in a lot of the soft left stuff (she's a proper old style one nation conservative) but i agree that she caves and is not prepared to significantly defend her position.

    I do like her narrative, belief in morality and her diagnosis of the problems in society (her Downing Street speech was epic) but i agree with yourself that the solutions are wrong and it's probable that she's not radical enough to solve those problems (hence spending £10bn on extending help to buy for a year rather than radically expanding the starter home idea).
    For the past year though, the Tories on here (with the exception of a few like JD) had fallen head over heels for May. It was as if she could do no wrong and she was great.

    All along I was never sold on it. She just benefited from Labour and UKIP collapsing and a total lack of press scrutiny. As soon as she came under pressure in the election period, she couldn't handle it.

    I have always thought that Cameron was an asset to the Tories, far more so than May.

    As Nigel Farage said yesterday, May's greatest achievement seems to have been to revive the Labour party!
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    For the past year though, the Tories on here (with the exception of a few like JD) had fallen head over heels for May. It was as if she could do no wrong and she was great.

    All along I was never sold on it. She just benefited from Labour and UKIP collapsing and a total lack of press scrutiny. As soon as she came under pressure in the election period, she couldn't handle it.

    I have always thought that Cameron was an asset to the Tories, far more so than May.

    As Nigel Farage said yesterday, May's greatest achievement seems to have been to revive the Labour party!
    There's a lot of arrogance in her, sadly unsupported by real ability. That's why they came out with all the crap about fox hunting and cutting social care in the election - she was staggeringly over confident in how the public perceive her and the shabby collection of con artists and fanatics who comprise her cabinet. She tries to portray herself as some sort of public good motivated true blue Christian housewife, but it's written all over her that she represents the hedge fund class of over moneyed, tax sheltered creeps and their inflated self regard.
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    Theresa May is a micro-manager who made her name in a department that in the last 30 years had generally been under-managed. Half a million immigration files didn't fall behind the back of a filing cabinet on her watch.

    Her problem has been that she could not transcend that role.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Theresa May is a micro-manager who made her name in a department that in the last 30 years had generally been under-managed. Half a million immigration files didn't fall behind the back of a filing cabinet on her watch.

    Her problem has been that she could not transcend that role.
    Things like the immigrant count have precious little to do with who runs the Home Office, they are global trends that not just this country but almost every developed nation - the UK was also deliberately permitting in large numbers from the EU, not due to any mismanagement, but because that was policy. Claiming a win for her there is just nonsense.

    I think she's had it and pretty soon judging from reports.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Things like the immigrant count have precious little to do with who runs the Home Office, they are global trends that not just this country but almost every developed nation - the UK was also deliberately permitting in large numbers from the EU, not due to any mismanagement, but because that was policy. Claiming a win for her there is just nonsense.

    I think she's had it and pretty soon judging from reports.
    Read up about the disaster that John Reid inherited from Charles Clarke. This has nothing to do with global trends, but administrative incompetence. The point I was making was that Theresa May does keep her finger on the pulse of administration.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    The far left is inherently pro open borders- workers of the world, unite! The idea that class is a far bigger factor if difference than nationality is a fundamental to left wing discourse.
    Open borders are not unique to left wing internationalism. It's being a general libertarian position is a better descriptor imo.

    Support for radical open borders can be found with right wing market fundamentalists types. The free market should liberate humanity from nations, wars and so on. A kind of Utopian capitalism. A more moderate version of this is can be found in the the dominant ideology of the west which certainly isn't "workers of the world unite!". The federalists in the EU project represent this. People like Bill Gates arguably support this kind of thing as well. I kind of slow march towards liberal global market cooperation.
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    It's a bit left wing for the Daily Mail.
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    Marx was a typical work-shy lefty who made a living from writing and talking utopia down the pub (The Red Lion) to get someone to buy him a round and fund his jobless lifestyle, Engels among many others. Alas, some people took him too seriously later in history with very bad consequences for millions of them. Without realizing it, he may have been the most dangerous man in history.
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    (Original post by zhog)
    Marx was a typical work-shy lefty who made a living from writing and talking utopia down the pub (The Red Lion) to get someone to buy him a round and fund his jobless lifestyle, Engels among many others. Alas, some people took him too seriously later in history with very bad consequences for millions of them. Without realizing it, he may have been the most dangerous man in history.
    Lol. Marx had several jobs in journalism and made a lot of money from his political writings.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Lol. Marx had several jobs in journalism and made a lot of money from his political writings.
    “It all began over drinks,” Hunt writes of the forty-year collaboration between Karl Marx and his benefactor, ghostwriter, and best friend, Friedrich Engels. Engels’s life was defined by an awkward tension. When he could afford it, he was a muckraking journalist, street-fighting revolutionary, and international libertine. When he couldn’t, he was tethered to Manchester and his father’s cotton mill, supplying Marx with the money (and the empirical evidence) he needed to complete “Das Kapital.
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2.../marxs-general

    One day, you may realise that the world according to the Left is a complete misrepresentation of reality at every instance. Had to be, how else to justify a need to turn it upside down?
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    (Original post by zhog)
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2.../marxs-general

    One day, you may realise that the world according to the Left is a complete misrepresentation of reality at every instance. Had to be, how else to justify a need to turn it upside down?
    Except your comment remains untrue, given that Marx had several jobs.

    You seem really rather angry at the moment in your posts. You seem to have gone for the approach of 'everyone who is left wing is a work shy idiot'. I'm sure it will go down well at the local Conservative club, but less so when put to the nation.
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    I can't wait for her to hand in P45!

    She's terrible.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Except your comment remains untrue, given that Marx had several jobs.

    You seem really rather angry at the moment in your posts. You seem to have gone for the approach of 'everyone who is left wing is a work shy idiot'. I'm sure it will go down well at the local Conservative club, but less so when put to the nation.
    Enter the psychologising. If anything, it's leftists who sound "angry" to me, constantly kvetching about everything off the back of their flawed economic misconceptions about the world, to sate their neurotic personalities.

    He meant a real job. Being a political hack isn't much of one. He largely relied on Engels, a capitalist, for his lifestyle, and treated his maid like ****. He was the "oppressor" he wrote about.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Except your comment remains untrue, given that Marx had several jobs.
    Ok, he had several jobs then.

    You seem really rather angry at the moment in your posts. You seem to have gone for the approach of 'everyone who is left wing is a work shy idiot'. I'm sure it will go down well at the local Conservative club, but less so when put to the nation.
    That's another misrepresentation of reality, I'm not angry at anything and it is you who looks discomforted by something. I was very quietly rambling on until you started chasing me around. Exercising my right to reply only, that's all.
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    (Original post by TCA2b)
    I can't wait for her to hand in P45!

    She's terrible.



    Enter the psychologising. If anything, it's leftists who sound "angry" to me, constantly kvetching about everything off the back of their flawed economic misconceptions about the world, to sate their neurotic personalities.

    He meant a real job. Being a political hack isn't much of one. He largely relied on Engels, a capitalist, for his lifestyle, and treated his maid like ****. He was the "oppressor" he wrote about.
    Oh come off it.
    A 'real job' whatever that is...

    Marx had a lot of jobs and earnt more than the vast majority of his critics ever will. Yet they label him as 'work-shy'. Lol
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    Holy s4it, this website is so full of uninformed people
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    (Original post by zhog)
    Ok, he had several jobs then.



    That's another misrepresentation of reality, I'm not angry at anything and it is you who looks discomforted by something. I was very quietly rambling on until you started chasing me around. Exercising my right to reply only, that's all.
    Your contribution to any thread nowadays seems to be 'left wing people are all stupid aren't they?'.

    You seem very angry, to the point you're now just making stuff up, like you've just done on this thread.

    I'm really unsure about how you can describe someone who had several jobs, as 'work-shy'. I guess it fits your narrative though.
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    (Original post by zhog)
    Marx was a typical work-shy lefty who made a living from writing and talking utopia down the pub (The Red Lion) to get someone to buy him a round and fund his jobless lifestyle, Engels among many others. Alas, some people took him too seriously later in history with very bad consequences for millions of them. Without realizing it, he may have been the most dangerous man in history.
    Isn't it a bit difficult to be work-shy and at the same time be the most dangerous man in history? :teehee: He certainly wrote a lot of books for someone workshy and his Kapital is still regarded with awe by many very serious modern economists. He had his flaws and there are obvious errors in his work, but he also contributed a huge leap forwards in understanding what capitalism is, how it works and the mechanisms of economic society.
 
 
 
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