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    M450 - Catalonia motion 2017, Submitted by The Rt. Hon. Joecphillips, Seconded by The Hon. Connor27 MP

    That this House believes that the Government should recognise the state of Catalonia
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    No. This is not an issue for us to wade into like that.

    I'll support their independence personally when I see evidence that a supermajority of Castilians want that, but the only involvement a foreign power should have is to put pressure on Spain to allow such a vote to take place.
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    A strong aye - one of the biggest achievements of this country since the First World War has been its unrelenting support for national self determination for all peoples of the world.

    This should not stop with Catalonia.
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    A strong aye - one of the biggest achievements of this country since the First World War has been its unrelenting support for national self determination for all peoples of the world.

    This should not stop with Catalonia.
    I'm all for self determination if that's what the people want. In this case we don't know yet. While the referendums are illegal the people who turn out to vote are likely to be those who do want to be independent which skews the result. The 2014 one had a 35% turnout so it is hard to use that as evidence. In the election that year the pro independence parties did not gain a majority of seats so it is not a clear cut issue.

    Either way, is it not rash (to say the least) to declare our support for a 'country' that has not even declared independence themselves yet?
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    A tad premature, no? I like the sentiment, or rather I would do if there were any serious claims to such a state currently existing.
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    I AM against the Spanish independice referendum because it would have disastrous effects on Spain’s economy, given that Catalonia Ian one of Spain’s richest provinces.
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    Nay, while I'm all for self determination there is no mandate for an independent Catalonian state given polling was showing 10 point leads going both ways depending on which you looked at and the separatists didn't get a majority in the last election. The referendum held at the weekend has no weight behind it either given boycotting by the pro Spanish, pro Spain voters staying at home through fear, having incomplete results due to seizure of ballot boxes, and just generally that it was not a free a fair referendum.

    If we are to take any position it should be support for a free and fair referendum where the people of Catalonia get to vote without fear of retribution and where both governments respect the process and ideally the result. Then again, I thought we weren't supposed to meddle in the internal affairs of other countries.
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    (Original post by Kalail)
    I AM against the Spanish independice referendum because it would have disastrous effects on Spain’s economy, given that Catalonia Ian one of Spain’s richest provinces.
    What about brexit or Scottish independence?
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    A strong aye - one of the biggest achievements of this country since the First World War has been its unrelenting support for national self determination for all peoples of the world.

    This should not stop with Catalonia.
    I agree that one of our achievements is self determination. I also believe that the Catalonian people deserve their say in a proper referendum.

    If Catalonia was to declare independence, I would support this motion. However this has not happened yet. I would like to see the Spanish and Catalonian Governments come together to find a way to hold a fair referendum, or take steps to resolve this crisis. We must not see a repeat of the scenes we saw on the 1st of October.
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    Catalonia hasn't even declared independence so there's nothing to recognize.
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    This as others have pointed out, may be slightly premature. Though by the time the period for debate and then cessation has passed, it may be different.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What about brexit or Scottish independence?
    IM against those too
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    Premature for this as, like others have pointed out, Catalonia has not declared independence yet. In any case, one would have to assess the situation after they declare independence, if they declare independence to ascertain whether or not declaring them as a nation is a prudent course of action at this point in time.

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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    No. This is not an issue for us to wade into like that.

    I'll support their independence personally when I see evidence that a supermajority of Castilians want that, but the only involvement a foreign power should have is to put pressure on Spain to allow such a vote to take place.
    90% isnt a supermajority?
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    Ooh! A controversial issue!!!:dance:
    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    Catalonia hasn't even declared independence so there's nothing to recognise.
    This ^
    But also this:
    (Original post by DayneD89)
    No. This is not an issue for us to wade into like that.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    No. This is not an issue for us to wade into like that.

    I'll support their independence personally when I see evidence that a supermajority of Castilians want that, but the only involvement a foreign power should have is to put pressure on Spain to allow such a vote to take place.
    I completely agree with this. Just as we wouldn't have appreciated other foreign powers wading into the Scottish Independence referendum, it is not for us to wade in at this point and recognise Catalonia as a state.

    I also agree that the Government must and should push the Spanish Government to hold a legitimate referendum with their backing
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    Is recognising a state meddling? If it is then the uk must meddle into hundreds of countries politics.
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    (Original post by Kalail)
    IM against those too
    So it's not about the financial contribution of the secessionist area then, Britain's finances would be in a better position without Scotland after all
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Is recognising a state meddling? If it is then the uk must meddle into hundreds of countries politics.
    It is when there is no legal basis on which to recognise the supposed state.
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    Nay. This is premature since there's as of yet no declaration of independence. In any case, we should primarily back a free and fair referendum with UN oversight if necessary. Theoretically, recognising a Catalan state brought about through a unilateral declaration of independence should be a last resort used only if Spain continues to prevent them exercising their right to self-determination.
 
 
 
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