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    This is ridiculous. Even the Catalans do not recognise the state of Catalonia. It does not exist, has not been declared, even illegally.
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    No, as many have said there should be a free and fair re run of the election. At the moment, the nation state of Catalonia has no legitimacy.
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    90% isnt a supermajority?
    Not in such a flawed referendum, no. In a referendum like that the people who turn out will be those who are most in favour of the change while others will boycott or not care enough to take such a risk.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    Not in such a flawed referendum, no. In a referendum like that the people who turn out will be those who are most in favour of the change while others will boycott or not care enough to take such a risk.
    And this also includes the ballot boxes that were removed by police. Attendance isnt an issue in the Scottish Independence vote.
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    It seems people are stacking the deck for the status quo so if a government doesn’t want a change all they have to do is violently suppress the opposition and we will give them what they want, that seems like a dangerous precedent to set.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It seems people are stacking the deck for the status quo
    People are stacking the deck for common sense. You cannot attempt to recognise a state that has not even declared itself. Can you not see that?
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    (Original post by That Bearded Man)
    And this also includes the ballot boxes that were removed by police. Attendance isnt an issue in the Scottish Independence vote.
    Exactly. The biggest reliable democratic decision of the people we have is the last election where separatists did not get a majority of the vote.

    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It seems people are stacking the deck for the status quo so if a government doesn’t want a change all they have to do is violently suppress the opposition and we will give them what they want, that seems like a dangerous precedent to set.
    I don't think that opposing this means you support the actions of Spain race. Obviously there is a stage where sepertion could happen without a referendum is Spain is not willing, but the election was called on short notice and with unionist parties boycotting procedings. Forgive me if I'm mistaken but wasn't the decision to hold this referendum taken in less than an hour and with less than a months notice before the proposed referendum date?

    By all means condemn the actions of Spain, but this isn't a one sided or simple issue.
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    Strongly nay. Even if we assume a right to self-determination, the Catalonians have not determined a genuine preference since the situation dissuaded unionists from voting. It would be antidemocratic to recognise Catalonia.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It seems people are stacking the deck for the status quo so if a government doesn’t want a change all they have to do is violently suppress the opposition and we will give them what they want, that seems like a dangerous precedent to set.
    If you propose a motion to ask for a legitimised referendum, I suspect the opposers will largely support it. However, the referendum which has taken place is an aberration of democracy.
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    I'd agree if more than 42% voted.
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    (Original post by frankielogue)
    I'd agree if more than 42% voted.
    To be fair 42% with a load of ballot boxes carted off by police before they could be counted and a mass campaign of state violence to repress the vote is pretty darn impressive.
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    (Original post by Saoirse:3)
    To be fair 42% with a load of ballot boxes carted off by police before they could be counted and a mass campaign of state violence to repress the vote is pretty darn impressive.
    Indeed. I think some people have bought the Rajoy plan hook, line and sinker.
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    A higher portion of the electorate (registered voters not total votes) voted for catalonian independence than Brexit
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    This motion has entered a period of cessation.
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    This motion is hereby withdrawn.
 
 
 
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