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TSR - Interview With Nick Clegg (Former Leader Of The Liberal Democrats) Watch

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    Would you like TSR to do one, and what questions would you ask?
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    This is clickbait.
    But I still would, he was a political leader of a party and was vice-prime minister. Although I don't know what he did as vice-prime minister
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    (Original post by ArianaChande)
    Would you like TSR to do one, and what questions would you ask?
    This would be interesting. I would ask why you call yourself a "liberal democrat" but are illiberal and so intolerant of those with socially traditional views, and not democratic as you don't accept the referendum to leave the EU dictatorship and didn't stick with any meaningful policy you were elected on in 2010.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    This would be interesting. I would ask why you call yourself a "liberal democrat" but are illiberal and so intolerant of those with socially traditional views, and not democratic as you don't accept the referendum to leave the EU dictatorship and didn't stick with any meaningful policy you were elected on in 2010.
    Spelled Lib Dem wrong.
    It's authoritarian undemocrats.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    This would be interesting. I would ask why you call yourself a "liberal democrat" but are illiberal and so intolerant of those with socially traditional views, and not democratic as you don't accept the referendum to leave the EU dictatorship and didn't stick with any meaningful policy you were elected on in 2010.
    You lack an understanding of liberalism and democracy.
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    (Original post by TCFactor)
    Spelled Lib Dem wrong.
    It's authoritarian undemocrats.
    No wonder they are at 5% in the polls.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    No wonder they are at 5% in the polls.
    Lol. I am an actual liberal. More like libertarian. The Lib Dem are supposed to be liberal but are far too left now. And lost. Like really lost.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    You lack an understanding of liberalism and democracy.
    Liberal = tolerant and accepting of new ideas outside the mainstream.

    100 years ago the Liberals truly supported women's rights etc, while respecting those who disagree. Now unless you fit with the narrow views dictated by the out-of-touch neoliberal upper class (e.g. Churches should be forced to marry gay couples) you are called a racist.

    Democracy = people have the power. By definition the majority is always right and the politicians are there to serve to lead and carry out their mandate.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Liberal = tolerant and accepting of new ideas outside the mainstream.

    100 years ago the Liberals truly supported women's rights etc, while respecting those who disagree. Now unless you fit with the narrow views dictated by the out-of-touch neoliberal upper class (e.g. Churches should be forced to marry gay couples) you are called a racist.

    Democracy = people have the power. By definition the majority is always right and the politicians are there to serve to lead and carry out their mandate.
    As I said.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    As I said.
    Those are the correct definitions, if you can only give snarky responses and not engage with which parts you believe to be wrong, it's better to say nothing.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Those are the correct definitions, if you can only give snarky responses and not engage with which parts you believe to be wrong, it's better to say nothing.
    No, they aren't.

    Liberalism is primarily about liberty, absolute freedom of the individual until his actions interfere with the sphere of freedoms of another. It also means freedom of expression, thought and speech for minorities, which shouldn't be oppressed. You are confusing liberalism (what the liberal party was about) with progressiveness and contemporary leftism which is wrongly referred to as "liberal". Liberalism is not a devotion to every new and progressive political/cultural trend, but a strong ideology in itself, opposed to socialism as it assigns more importance to freedom than equality and wishes to bring people up rather than bringing the rich down to make them "equal", and opposed to authoritarian systems as it embraces personal and political freedom.

    This has nothing to do with misusing the term "racist".

    Let's ignore the fact that people don't hold sovereignty in the UK and that the referendum was not binding. Democracy doesn't state that the majority is always right, especially liberal-democracy. That would be ochlocracy, populism, dictatorship of the majority, whatever. The fact that slightly more than 50% of voters chose to leave doesn't mean that the "minority" should change their opinion and shut up. By saying so, you are being very illiberal yourself. The elected representatives of the minority should continue to fight for their idea (that's respecting their mandate) and try to change people's opinion, and become the majority themselves. They can do this through speeches, books, manifestos, peaceful protests, and parliamentary manoeuvres (not violence). The final decision will always be taken by the majority at that time. Indeed, currently Brexit is going on, but if at any point during in the future remainers win the majority, then reversal of the process shall begin. This is how democracy works. There is nothing more democratic than a second referendum to verify whether there have been shifts in the position of the 50%+1, and possibly to understand if people prefer hard or soft Brexit.
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    Don't want to ask him anything, but wanted to say his defeat was one of the highlights of the summer...
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    No, they aren't.

    Liberalism is primarily about liberty, absolute freedom of the individual until his actions interfere with the sphere of freedoms of another. It also means freedom of expression, thought and speech for minorities, which shouldn't be oppressed. You are confusing liberalism (what the liberal party was about) with progressiveness and contemporary leftism which is wrongly referred to as "liberal". Liberalism is not a devotion to every new and progressive political/cultural trend, but a strong ideology in itself, opposed to socialism as it assigns more importance to freedom than equality and wishes to bring people up rather than bringing the rich down to make them "equal", and opposed to authoritarian systems as it embraces personal and political freedom.

    This has nothing to do with misusing the term "racist".

    Let's ignore the fact that people don't hold sovereignty in the UK and that the referendum was not binding. Democracy doesn't state that the majority is always right, especially liberal-democracy. That would be ochlocracy, populism, dictatorship of the majority, whatever. The fact that slightly more than 50% of voters chose to leave doesn't mean that the "minority" should change their opinion and shut up. By saying so, you are being very illiberal yourself. The elected representatives of the minority should continue to fight for their idea (that's respecting their mandate) and try to change people's opinion, and become the majority themselves. They can do this through speeches, books, manifestos, peaceful protests, and parliamentary manoeuvres (not violence). The final decision will always be taken by the majority at that time. Indeed, currently Brexit is going on, but if at any point during in the future remainers win the majority, then reversal of the process shall begin. This is how democracy works. There is nothing more democratic than a second referendum to verify whether there have been shifts in the position of the 50%+1, and possibly to understand if people prefer hard or soft Brexit.
    You're confusing libertarianism with liberalism. I suggest you look up the correct meaning then you can understand what your talking about.

    I never said the minority had to change their opinion, I said if they are democrats they will agree the result should be implemented. Whether technically binding or not, it is a clear expression of sovereignty.I'm not opposed to another referendum except it would create uncertainty but there would have to be clear evidence the majority had changed (considering on June 23rd the polls put Leave 10% behind when we were 4 ahead).
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    You're confusing libertarianism with liberalism. I suggest you look up the correct meaning then you can understand what your talking about.

    I never said the minority had to change their opinion, I said if they are democrats they will agree the result should be implemented. Whether technically binding or not, it is a clear expression of sovereignty.I'm not opposed to another referendum except it would create uncertainty but there would have to be clear evidence the majority had changed (considering on June 23rd the polls put Leave 10% behind when we were 4 ahead).
    No, I'm not. Educate yourself, read history, read the orange book, read Mill.

    Again, that's not what democracy is about. They have the right to fight until the end, but don't have the power/right to stop it unless the majority agrees.
 
 
 
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