Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

May plans to Reshuffle cabinet Watch

Announcements
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Just think, the overall NHS budget is £116.4 BILLION and employs 1 in 10 Brits. That is insane. I don’t care how left wing you are, this thing has gotten out of hand
    How does that it mean it's gotten out of hand?

    It spends far less than Americans do on healthcare, for instance. Yet provides a fantastic service.

    The NHS should pretty much get whatever it needs. It is the most important institution in the country.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    employs 1 in 10 Brits.

    all that human energy going into keeping us alive.

    How awful.

    Wait until you find out how many people are employed by something. :eek3:

    That is such a bizarre thing to worry about.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    She's talentless and is taking up a spot one of my picks could impress.

    You put Gove as First Sec. :p:p

    Any Tory who tries to reform the NHS is going to be horribly unpopular however any Tory government which does not try to reform the current greedy and fat NHS should be immediately thrown out. He's been reasonably good at actually pushing a few reforms and he clearly has it in him to stand up to the medical establishment. Little reason to change.

    There's been talk that Rudd has been fighting Brexit and she's been linked to supporting Boris and Hammond albeit i'm not sure Hammond himself was really on manouvers.

    Why should Hammond leave the cabinet? He's not hawkish enough on tax and spend but i do think he's one of the serious politicians.

    Aye. I think he did a good job and should continue. Plus i like to keep politicians in the same positions, it's rare they ever get to deal with the consequences of their own policies.

    Ffs I meant chief secretary of the Treasury for Gove. Not sure I’d trust him as chancellor but the treasury needs some sort of reformer

    Hunt is just picking at it- we need serious reform. I’d put Dan Hannan in charge of it 😂👍

    I like Hammond too and agree he’s one of the few grown ups and is also quite happy where he is.

    He should go because he is (reasonably but wrongly) under the impression that brexit cAn be done without serious reform/ Upheaval / /economic damage. I think people voted for cultural stability over economic stability.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)

    It spends far less than Americans do on healthcare, for instance. Yet provides a fantastic service.

    .
    Can all the right wingers and left wingers make a deal?

    Right wingers: don’t scream Venezuela! When talking about state ownership

    Left wingers: don’t scream America! When talking about private healthcare
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Can all the right wingers and left wingers make a deal?

    Right wingers: don’t scream Venezuela! When talking about state ownership

    Left wingers: don’t scream America! When talking about private healthcare
    Okay shall we go back to pre NHS days when poor people just went without healthcare?

    I'm still totally confused as to why you dislike the fact we have millions of people working tirelessly to keep us alive and healthy.

    The NHS is a phenomenal service and should get a service much money as it needs.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    How does that it mean it's gotten out of hand?

    It spends far less than Americans do on healthcare, for instance. Yet provides a fantastic service.

    The NHS should pretty much get whatever it needs. It is the most important institution in the country.
    I entirely agree with your post and am glad that you are so in agreement with me.

    Note that what it wants and what it needs is entirely my (and i suspect Davij's) point.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I entirely agree with your post and am glad that you are so in agreement with me.

    Note that what it wants and what it needs is entirely my (and i suspect Davij's) point.
    Disagree. They are the same.

    The NHS should be receiving massive increases in funding year on year. It's that important.

    The reason people on the right seem to have a problem with the NHS is that it's a classic example of a public sector organisation outperforming its private sector competitors.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Disagree. They are the same.

    The NHS should be receiving massive increases in funding year on year. It's that important.

    The reason people on the right seem to have a problem with the NHS is that it's a classic example of a public sector organisation outperforming its private sector competitors.
    Your operating under the flawed assumption that i have a problem with a publicly run NHS.

    My gripe with the NHS is the amount of money it demands and on that point i am alarmed by your attitude. What the NHS needs is to save lives, it needs infrastructure, technology and focus. What the NHS wants is to waste money on transgender surgeries, hymen replacements and second abortions.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your operating under the flawed assumption that i have a problem with a publicly run NHS.

    My gripe with the NHS is the amount of money it demands and on that point i am alarmed by your attitude. What the NHS needs is to save lives, it needs infrastructure, technology and focus. What the NHS wants is to waste money on transgender surgeries, hymen replacements and second abortions.
    I think you're entirely missing the problems here. Those examples of 'NHS Wastage' are more just political hot potatoes - they're controversial, but they don't cost a huge amount. The reason the NHS needs more money is population growth and aging - more people in Britain than ever before, and more of them living to an age where they'll likely encounter severe health issues and need extensive support. The real questions is whether you want to continually increase NHS funding to deal with that, or see a general reduction in services (which would mean e.g. some form of compulsory insurance, less coverage for minor ailments or no coverage without payment for foreign nationals post-Brexit, not just stopping gender reassignment surgery etc.)
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The NHS should be receiving massive increases in funding year on year. It's that important.
    i agree. But we have to ask

    1 - Why does it need more money to function?
    2 - How are we going to pay for that?

    1. Because our population is increasing so rapidly, there are more older people than ever before, we have to fund tonnes of growing bureaucracy due to it being in the public sector, increase in alcohol, and more effective treatment means people live longer.
    2: Raising tax levels usually decreases revenue, and it's not fair to rack up debt when the next generations shouldn't be wasting their money on our borrowing plus interest. There are areas that can be cut, within and aside from the NHS.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Okay shall we go back to pre NHS days when poor people just went without healthcare?
    Yep. Regularly when I go to France or Germany I see poorer people just drop dead on the street due to lack of medical care.

    I'm still totally confused as to why you dislike the fact we have millions of people working tirelessly to keep us alive and healthy.
    Because we are not at war and that is an obscene amount of people tax payers are paying.

    The NHS is a phenomenal service and should get a service much money as it needs.
    The NHS is a phenomenal service but it needs to be reformed rather than just throwing more and more money at it-which usually ends up going on overpaid managers and consultants rather than front line staff.

    The army does a phenomenal job but we’d quite rightly be sceptical if they were continually demanding greater and greater funds and numbers.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Hedie Allen is one of the better conservatives.

    "One of the brewing Tory rows of the autumn looks to be over Universal Credit, with Heidi Allen now claiming she has 25 Conservatives prepared to rebel on the matter. They are worried about a number of aspects of the fiendishly complicated reform which is supposed to make the benefit system less, er, fiendishly complicated. Chief among their worries is the six weeks that claimants have to wait for their benefits, which is a long period in itself, but almost a quarter of claimants have had to wait even longer than that to receive their money, leaving many of them unable to buy food."

    "Ministers had been reasonably relaxed about Allen’s letter calling for a pause in the roll-out of the new benefit, mainly because they didn’t see Allen as a particularly serious Conservative (many Tories wonder aloud whether she is a Conservative at all, "

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/1...ion-really-be/

    Figures my favourite Tory isn't really considered a Tory by her own party. I don't really know why she is in the party as apposed to being a lib dem or right wing Labour. If you were that apposed to what the Tories have been doing with regards to welfare since 2010 why on earth would you stand to be a conservative MP in the 2015 election and then vote with the whip on benefit reform? Still... I hope her and her rebels manage to scupper the government on the issue.

    She has also said she would leave the party if the Mogg became leader. :yy:

    "He is not the modern face of the Tory party that we are desperate, or I am certainly and colleagues are certainly desperate, to prove is out there. "

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...ushpmg00000003
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your operating under the flawed assumption that i have a problem with a publicly run NHS.

    My gripe with the NHS is the amount of money it demands and on that point i am alarmed by your attitude. What the NHS needs is to save lives, it needs infrastructure, technology and focus. What the NHS wants is to waste money on transgender surgeries, hymen replacements and second abortions.
    Pretty much this, though I doubt much money is going on transgender stuff et al. I suspect waste is the biggest thing - eg:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...ds-system-10bn
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Yep. Regularly when I go to France or Germany I see poorer people just drop dead on the street due to lack of medical care.
    You mean two countries with publicly funded healthcare systems? Right...

    Because we are not at war and that is an obscene amount of people tax payers are paying.
    More taxpayer money would end up being spent on any private system. Despite what some on the right say, the NHS is one of the most efficient services around.

    The NHS is a phenomenal service but it needs to be reformed rather than just throwing more and more money at it-which usually ends up going on overpaid managers and consultants rather than front line staff.

    The army does a phenomenal job but we’d quite rightly be sceptical if they were continually demanding greater and greater funds and numbers.
    Just not true. The bulk of its money goes on treatments, not funding these so called consultants and managers. I agree that there should be no contracting out of NHS services and it should be fully publicly funded.


    Please tell me why it's a problem that we have such a huge amount of people working for the NHS?
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    i agree. But we have to ask

    1 - Why does it need more money to function?
    2 - How are we going to pay for that?

    1. Because our population is increasing so rapidly, there are more older people than ever before, we have to fund tonnes of growing bureaucracy due to it being in the public sector, increase in alcohol, and more effective treatment means people live longer.
    2: Raising tax levels usually decreases revenue, and it's not fair to rack up debt when the next generations shouldn't be wasting their money on our borrowing plus interest. There are areas that can be cut, within and aside from the NHS.
    It is often said that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector, as if this were unquestionable fact. The evidence however, shows otherwise. There is very little evidence to suggest that the private sector is more efficient and lots of evidence of public sector organisations being run more efficiently than their private sector competitors.

    Raising tax levels does not usually decrease tax revenue either.


    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Your operating under the flawed assumption that i have a problem with a publicly run NHS.

    My gripe with the NHS is the amount of money it demands and on that point i am alarmed by your attitude. What the NHS needs is to save lives, it needs infrastructure, technology and focus. What the NHS wants is to waste money on transgender surgeries, hymen replacements and second abortions.
    It demands money to keep people alive and healthy.

    It should pretty much receive everything it asks for. It's that important.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    That's assuming they let her reshuffle them... I hear Boris might simply tell her to sit on it.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Davij038)
    Just think, the overall NHS budget is £116.4 BILLION and employs 1 in 10 Brits. That is insane. I don’t care how left wing you are, this thing has gotten out of hand
    So you think we should sacrifice the nations health to do a bit of penny pinching and spend it on servicing the debt instead?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It is often said that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector, as if this were unquestionable fact. The evidence however, shows otherwise. There is very little evidence to suggest that the private sector is more efficient and lots of evidence of public sector organisations being run more efficiently than their private sector competitors.

    Raising tax levels does not usually decrease tax revenue either.
    Do you have any experience of what you're talking about?? Stupid excess regulation costs lives from wasted time in healthcare. Everyone knows things take ten times as long and cost much more than in the private sector due to following ridiculous burdensome rules and no reason to get things done efficiently.

    Every example from history shows cutting taxes increases revenue, increasing them cuts income.
    • Community Assistant
    • Political Ambassador
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I would sack Philip Hammond but the Budget is coming up so I would wait until after. I also can’t believe Kwasi Kwarteng isn’t in the cabinet, he’s a top lad. I would sack Johnson and replace him with Patel for Foreign.

    If she’s going to have a reshuffle I doubt it would be massive changes so it would be more of a mini reshuffle.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Do you have any experience of what you're talking about?? Stupid excess regulation costs lives from wasted time in healthcare. Everyone knows things take ten times as long and cost much more than in the private sector due to following ridiculous burdensome rules and no reason to get things done efficiently.

    Every example from history shows cutting taxes increases revenue, increasing them cuts income.
    That's just not correct, on either point. Medicare in the US, for example, spends far less on bureaucracy than private firms do. Public sector organisations whether the NHS, nationalised rail companies in Europe or even the BBC are frequently able to provide a more efficient and better quality service than their private sector competitors.

    There seems to be a tendency to assume the private sector is more efficient without any eveidence backing it up. Sure, some things are done efficiently by the private sector and others are done so by the public sector. There's no real evidence to suggest that the public sector is more inefficient and studies on this topic have found little correlation.

    Tax cuts do not always increase revenues and tax rises do not always decrease revenue. In the lead up to World War II, tax levels rose and revenues increase. When Thatcher increased VAT, tax revenues increased. When Reagan cut income tax, tax revenues fell and only rose again once he raised indirect taxes a few years later.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.