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Christian anti-abortion group refused service in a coffee shop with a gay owner Watch

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    This is good apply it with everyone equally
    13
    36.11%
    This is good but it’s different when it is against another group
    1
    2.78%
    No one should have the right to refuse service for anything in the equality act
    22
    61.11%

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    I don't think business owners should be allowed to refuse service for prejudicial reasons, full stop. While amusing, this guy's antics were totally immature and incommensurate.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The case was in Northern Ireland, the only part of the UK where political beliefs are a protected characteristic, and the putative cake buyers sought to buy a cake with a political message supporting same-sex marriage (which is not available in NI).

    The cake shop lost for discriminating on political grounds, which is illegal (but only in NI), not for refusing on the grounds of the sexual orientation of the customer.

    The buyers would have lost if the case had been in England.
    As far as I remember this is incorrect. While the argument you make about the law in NI and the fact that the bakery in this case was in violation of it is true, is accurate, that is NOT the reasoning the judges gave for this ruling. They in fact ruled that it wasn’t discrimination based upon political beliefs, but was in fact direct discrimination based upon the protected characteristic of sexual orientation.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37748681

    Should they have been found guilty under the law in Northern Ireland? Yes, but they should not have been found guilty for the reasons they were. This case was a gross miscarriage of justice and was done on behalf of the judiciary, as far as I can see, for purely political reasons.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Not really. An ideology is a pretty well defined concept.

    Yes.

    Yes. (However, current legidlation does not allow this for some reason.)

    Depends why they are refusing service. Sexuality, bad; ideology, fine.
    Agreed, at its most basic an ideology is what somebody thinks/believes. So I assume you would be perfectly happy for somebody to refuse people service on the grounds of them being pro-choice or pro-lgbt rights?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    While business owners should not be allowed to refuse service on the grounds of race, gender, disability, sexuality, etc, they should be allowed to refuse on the grounds of behaviour, dress, ideology, etc.

    Quite simple really.
    I agree with everything but kicking people out because of how they're dressed. That still toes along the line of profiling. Unless of course they're walking around shirtless or with poop all over their clothes or assless chaps, but if they're in like a hoodie or something that's wrong.
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    I do think people should be banned if something the patron is doing goes against their principles though the same way someone is banned for going against policy.
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    Remember when a Christian bakery refused to bake a gay themed cake? Yeah.
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    My own personal view on the? The owner is a moron and likely a hypocrite, I disagree entirely with what he is doing but I absolutely believe he has the right to do this. I don’t believe the simple fact of him being a business owner compels him to serve anybody, that should entirely be down to his own discretion. I’ve argued this in the case of Christians refusing to bake cakes suooorting gay marriage etc. and i continue to argue it here.
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    Not an issue, they can get coffee literally anywhere so it's not like they were being persecuted
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    (Original post by tyrell221)
    Bit like not serving someone with a KKK costume tbh.
    >being against having abortions is the same as being a member of the KKK

    what a pillock lol
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    Private businesses have every right to select who exactly they wish to extend their services to. Their rights shouldn't be infringed as it is their decision and they can do as they please.

    Now for the bias, i find utterly deplorable that people fighting and campaigning for the lives of the unborn to be preserved are treated so lowly. Like seriously people, the safest place for a baby should be his/her mother's womb, now the babies who are born in western coutries are very forunate that their mothers wanted them or less they would've ended up in the bio-trash can of some murderous abortionists "clinic" (abbatoir really)
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    (Original post by Nebuchadnezzaṛ)
    >being against having abortions is the same as being a member of the KKK

    what a pillock lol
    No retard. Both are ideologies that you vehemently oppose.
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    (Original post by tyrell221)
    No retard. Both are ideologies that you vehemently oppose.
    And? I oppose all crime from not wearing a seatbelt to mass murder, that doesn't mean they should be treated equally or are comparable in any way. What a simple minded buffoon you are.
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    (Original post by Nebuchadnezzaṛ)
    And? I oppose all crime from not wearing a seatbelt to mass murder, that doesn't mean they should be treated equally or are comparable in any way. What a simple minded buffoon you are.
    To some people anti abortion christians are pretty extreme, if you cant comprehend how people are different from one another then you're the simple minded degenerate.
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    (Original post by tyrell221)
    To some people anti abortion christians are pretty extreme, if you cant comprehend how people are different from one another then you're the simple minded degenerate.
    If you think anti abortion Christians are as 'extreme' as the KKK then you are the only degenerate here.
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    So should the Christian bakery in Ireland have been forced to make a gay wedding cake? Since they don't agree with the 'idea' of gay marriage
    I mean the shop owner here is refusing to serve the Christian anti-abortion campaigners because they don't agree with the idea of the anti-abortion movement.
    But the bakery would make a straight wedding cake but not a gay wedding cake, so the issue is homosexuality, not weddings.
    If the bakery would happily make a cake promoting homosexuality, just not one for a gay wedding, then you may have a point. Possibly.
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    (Original post by Salt Queen)
    I agree with everything but kicking people out because of how they're dressed. That still toes along the line of profiling. Unless of course they're walking around shirtless or with poop all over their clothes or assless chaps, but if they're in like a hoodie or something that's wrong.
    So a smart restaurant that insists on a shirt should be forced to serve someone naked from the waist up.
    Or a shop run by Afro-Americans should be forced to serve a group of Klansmen in full robes?
    Or a kosher deli serve Prince Harry in his Nazi outfit?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But the bakery would make a straight wedding cake but not a gay wedding cake, so the issue is homosexuality, not weddings.
    If the bakery would happily make a cake promoting homosexuality, just not one for a gay wedding, then you may have a point. Possibly.
    Perhaps the issue is with homosexual relationships rather than homosexual people, as in they don't want to make a cake that goes against their belief that homosexual relationships, homosexual activity and homosexual weddings are wrong? should they be allowed to refuse service on that basis?
    If the bakery wouldn't serve a gay person who asked them to make a normal plain cake and they served it, that would be against the law, but surely if the issue is with the content of the cake, and not the customer, the owner should have the right to refuse service?
    A cake business shouldn't have to produce a cake that they don't want to produce for various reasons, surely?
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    (Original post by Nebuchadnezzaṛ)
    If you think anti abortion Christians are as 'extreme' as the KKK then you are the only degenerate here.
    Read what I said again. It's not comparable, but some people can still see it as extreme in it's own regard you complete moron.

    Remind me what uni you go to?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    While business owners should not be allowed to refuse service on the grounds of race, gender, disability, sexuality, etc, they should be allowed to refuse on the grounds of behaviour, dress, ideology, etc.

    Quite simple really.
    If by simple you mean arbitrary as hell.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    But the bakery would make a straight wedding cake but not a gay wedding cake, so the issue is homosexuality, not weddings.
    If the bakery would happily make a cake promoting homosexuality, just not one for a gay wedding, then you may have a point. Possibly.
    What? They don't nor does anyone have to promote a damn thing.

    And if a straight person advocating for gay rights came in to make a cake for a gay wedding and they were turned away then that means the business opposes homosexuality not homosexualS which they have every right to do (I still think the original gay cake fiasco was baiting and a pile of ****-who in their right mind would go into a religious establishment and ask for something so explicit and antagonistic). The civil rights issue is and should forever be about rights of an individual. Turning away a straight person is not discriminating against gay individuals... Therefore, your concept that turning away someone who wants a gay cake being discriminatory is wrong because it's about the message on the cake NOT who asked for it. Unfortunately the Catholic bakery had a pack if simpletons on their legal team.

    And about the clothing thing, as I already specified and acknowledged, someone being held naked for example is right to be refused. But think about why they're getting refused. Because their lifestyle choice offends their morals and makes the business look bad. Therefore turning away a gay message on a cake in THEIR business should also be allowed and indisputable.
 
 
 
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