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B1287 - Protection of Children Act 2017 Watch

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    V1287 - Protection of Children Act 2017, The Rt. Hon. DayneD89 & The Rt. Hon. Obiejess MP



    Protection of Children Act 2017


    An Act to legalise forms of pornographic material that do not lead to the harm of children.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the consent of the Commons in this present parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-


    PART I.
    LEGALISATION OF SIMULATED PORNOGRAPH INVOLVING MINORS


    (1) Amends The Protection of Children Act 1978, sec. 1-

    (1) (Subject to sections 1A and 1B,) it is an offence for a person—

    (a) to take, or permit to be taken or to make, any indecent photograph or pseudo-photograph of a child; or

    (b) to distribute or show such indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs; or

    (c) to have in his possession such indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs, with a view to their being distributed or shown by himself or others; or

    (d) to publish or cause to be published any advertisement likely to be understood as conveying that the advertiser distributes or shows such indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs, or intends to do so.

    to;

    (1) (Subject to sections 1A and 1B,) it is an offence for a person—

    (a) to take, or permit to be taken or to make, any indecent photograph of a child; or

    (b) to distribute or show such indecent photographs; or

    (c) to have in his possession such indecent photographs, with a view to their being distributed or shown by himself or others; or

    (d) to publish or cause to be published any advertisement likely to be understood as conveying that the advertiser distributes or shows such indecent, or intends to do so.

    (2) Amends The Protection of Children Act 1978, sec. 4-

    (4) Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) or (c), it shall be a defence for him to prove—

    (a) that he had a legitimate reason for distributing or showing the photographs or pseudo-photographs or (as the case may be) having them in his possession; or

    (b )that he had not himself seen the photographs or pseudo-photographs and did not know, nor had any cause to suspect, them to be indecent.

    to;

    (4) Where a person is charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) or (c), it shall be a defence for him to prove—

    (a) that he had a legitimate reason for distributing or showing the photographs or (as the case may be) having them in his possession; or

    (b )that he had not himself seen the photographs and did not know, nor had any cause to suspect, them to be indecent.



    PART II.
    COMMENCEMENT, SHORT TITLE AND EXTENT

    (3) This Act shall come into force 1st January 2018

    (4) This Act may be cited as the Protection of Children Act 2017

    (5) This Act extends to the whole of the United Kingdom


    notesThis article forms the academic basis for this change. It shows how the legalisation of pornographic material led to a fall in cases of sexual assaults using data from 9 countries (Czech Republic, Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Sweden and the USA). This is despite a rising crime rate in some of those countries at the same time. Further it uses the examples of Denmark and the Czech Republic to show that the legalisation of simulated child pornography came before a dramatic fall in cases of child molestation
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    Good grief we have gone academic with the sources...

    I can't help wondering why Obiejess is reading articles about pornography in the Czech Republic:beard:

    EDIT: Original legislation:
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...?timeline=true

    I'm on the fence on this one. (as usual).

    I thank the rt honourable members for bringing this debate to the house, and will await the arguments made.
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    On second thoughts. My only hesitation to this are digital drawings that could potentially blur the lines between mere drawings and real life images. This bill would allow, for instance, someone to have seen a child and create digital artwork that could potentially be eerily close to an actual image. Also, having just glanced over the study, it seems to suggest that child pornographic images themselves lead to decreases in offences making me wonder why this bill doesn't go the full way in terms of legalising such images. Why is that and could the former point be addressed?
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    Aye. I would much rather paedophiles 'used' drawings of hypothetical children than on photographs that were made during the abuse of actual children. We need to recognise that paedophilia exists and that we cannot get rid of it, and that therefore we should be focussing on how to minimise the number of children abused as a result of it.
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    I’ll try to read the study soon, if it shows what is said then aye

    If you think this normalises paedophilia do we also live in a rape culture as there is also rape porn?
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    Will more than likely vote aye on this.
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    Mr Speaker,

    If these leftists truly cared about protecting children, they would have voted in favour of my Protection of Minors from Propaganda Promoting Non-traditional Sexual Relationships Bill. But they did not, so clearly, they do not care about protecting children. This is why the Labour Party was keen on protecting the paedophiles who sexually assaulted and raped little girls in Rotherham! These are the same kind of leftists who are responsible for those sexual assaults in Cologne and in Sweden, which has turned into the rape capital of the world thanks to the leftists.
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    Mr Speaker, this is a well written bill and I welcome its introduction to the house as it seeks to tackle a controversial issue.

    I would like to see Conceited's comment addressed, but other than that I will be voting for this bill
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    Obiejess, you have once said that rape was about power and not about sexual fulfilment. If that's the case, how do you explain why the legalisation of pornography has led to a decrease in rapes?
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    The study says what the author claim (bar the fact that it ONLY looks at the Czech Republic and not 9 different countries) and states that with the legalisation of pornography rates fell, but it does not in any way state any backing for the porn causing this shift, in fact it states that while there was a sharp decline in the early 90s it was followed a few years later with a sharp increase before steadily decreasing again, a trend that had begun in the 70s with no known cause.

    The justification the authors provide have no solid basis and is based on a post hoc argument.

    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I’ll try to read the study soon, if it shows what is said then aye

    If you think this normalises paedophilia do we also live in a rape culture as there is also rape porn?
    Bad example, rape porn is also illegal, even if not the hardest of things to find, no pun intended.
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    Further the data is for reported crimes, not convictions or estimated crimes, with it even stating that 55% of claims of child abuse in divorce cases are believed to be false.

    "Theseresearcherssuggestthat
    up to 55% of chi1d sex abuse accusations were false when they occurred in property dividing disputes or guardianship legal
    disputes involving child custody"
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    On second thoughts. My only hesitation to this are digital drawings that could potentially blur the lines between mere drawings and real life images. This bill would allow, for instance, someone to have seen a child and create digital artwork that could potentially be eerily close to an actual image. Also, having just glanced over the study, it seems to suggest that child pornographic images themselves lead to decreases in offences making me wonder why this bill doesn't go the full way in terms of legalising such images. Why is that and could the former point be addressed?
    I did consider that point, but I couldn't find a realistic way to prevent it. How does someone judge whether an image is similar enough to a real person to be considered illegal? It would simply clog the courts with accusations. I might not like the idea of more realistic child porn but then again I don't like the idea of child porn at all. If it helps prevent children actually coming to harm then I think it's a worthwhile trade off.

    The aim is to fully legalise pseudo images, ie those that are not involving real children. There must be a clear distinction that any creating or distribution of images that involved the use of minors would not be altered at all by this bill.
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    (Original post by DayneD89)
    I did consider that point, but I couldn't find a realistic way to prevent it. How does someone judge whether an image is similar enough to a real person to be considered illegal? It would simply clog the courts with accusations. I might not like the idea of more realistic child porn but then again I don't like the idea of child porn at all. If it helps prevent children actually coming to harm then I think it's a worthwhile trade off.

    The aim is to fully legalise pseudo images, ie those that are not involving real children. There must be a clear distinction that any creating or distribution of images that involved the use of minors would not be altered at all by this bill.
    The best way to remedy that is to forgo the concept of this bill entirely and look at other ways of tackling the issue of paedophilia.

    Also, if the study is to be seriously considered then why doesn't this bill legalise possession of actual images of children - '... ...this country [the Czech Republic]... ...had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and... ...showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.' It's clear and understandable as to why you've opted for a diluted bill but do you accept that legalising actual possession of genuine child pornography is just a legitimate way of combating the issue in question?
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    The study says what the author claim (bar the fact that it ONLY looks at the Czech Republic and not 9 different countries) and states that with the legalisation of pornography rates fell, but it does not in any way state any backing for the porn causing this shift, in fact it states that while there was a sharp decline in the early 90s it was followed a few years later with a sharp increase before steadily decreasing again, a trend that had begun in the 70s with no known cause.

    The justification the authors provide have no solid basis and is based on a post hoc argument.



    Bad example, rape porn is also illegal, even if not the hardest of things to find, no pun intended.
    I'll find the data for the other countries tomorrow if I get a chance. Sorry, I thought they were all in that one. In one country on its own I would agree. But in multiple countries the same path can be seen. At the very least we can say that there has been no rise in reports of sexual assault from the legalisation of pornography.
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    (Original post by Conceited)
    The best way to remedy that is to forgo the concept of this bill entirely and look at other ways of tackling the issue of paedophilia.

    Also, if the study is to be seriously considered then why doesn't this bill legalise possession of actual images of children - '... ...this country [the Czech Republic]... ...had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and... ...showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.' It's clear and understandable as to why you've opted for a diluted bill but do you accept that legalising actual possession of genuine child pornography is just a legitimate way of combating the issue in question?
    On one hand you have children being harmed. On the other hand you have some creepily realistic images where no children were harmed. I might not like either option but I know which one I would take.

    I think there is a clear difference. One leads to children being hurt and one doesn't. One is morally unjustifiable. One is unpleasant. Our aim with laws put in place must always be to protect children. I accept that it means that this bill doesn't perfectly match the conditions in the Czech Rebublic, but it is a global trend that when pornographic material becomes legal, cases of sexual assault decrease.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Further the data is for reported crimes, not convictions or estimated crimes, with it even stating that 55% of claims of child abuse in divorce cases are believed to be false.

    "Theseresearcherssuggestthat
    up to 55% of chi1d sex abuse accusations were false when they occurred in property dividing disputes or guardianship legal
    disputes involving child custody"
    Reports of sexual assault is as valid an indicator as anything else. Prosecution rates are just as hard to trust. Still, the fact that that many of the reports could be false would have been the case before and after the legalisation and so doesn't meaningfully effect the data.
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    Aye - a very progressive measure that goes some way to abolishing the draconian concept of a "victimless crime"
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    (bar the fact that it ONLY looks at the Czech Republic and not 9 different countries)
    Here is evidence from Sweden, West Germany, Denmark and the USA. Unfortunately, I don't have a full version I can share yet but I'll try to work on that. It's hard to find data online that goes that far back.

    here Is some evidence regarding Japan, China, Hong Kong,

    In the UK the 1970 Committee on Obscenity and Film Censorship
    Professor Bernard Williams was unable to find any link between avalibility of pornographic materials and sexual assault, however I have been unable to find a copy of that report online.

    I'll find more articles later if you insist but evidence is clear that at the very least relaxing restrictions on pornographic material did not lead to more cases of sexual assault. Further in each of these nations cases of sexual assault actually fell.
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    Digital drawings can be very realistic and identify a person, so Nay
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Digital drawings can be very realistic and identify a person, so Nay
    Your argument is that the images may be so realistic that higher rates of actual sexual assault against children are better?
 
 
 
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