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Socially Accepted Racism watch

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    So the other day, in the midst of a debate about discrimination against one particular group, a Labour MP gets up and says: “Does my honourable friend accept that the public view of the community will continue to be shaped by the appalling behaviour of the minority, who bring absolute chaos to their own communities?”

    I'm sure we know that if he'd said it about Jews or Black people, he'd (quite rightly) be out before he even finished speaking. If the debate had been about Muslims, or Asians, or to a lesser extent Poles or Romanians, maybe a couple of Express or Mail columnists, or some obscure minor UKIP MEP, might have stood up for him and made the typical moans about "political correctness", but without a doubt it would still (again, quite rightly) be denounced by all the major parties and thrown out. Gay or Trans people? Would immediately (for good reason) be taken as proof by LGBT groups that British society still has a serious homophobia/transphobia problem.

    But instead he said it about gypsies, so that means it's all fine, right? No need for Labour to descend into bitter internal war for years over antiziganism (unlike the hairtrigger response to anything possibly construable as antisemitic), just like there was no need for the Tories to take any action when one of their MPs called gypsies "scum" who "do not deserve the same human rights as my decent constituents".
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    Do you think that a group or community can be negatively perceived by the general public because of the behaviour of a vocal and combative minority?

    If you think that they can (which I assume you do), what is "racist" about mentioning that?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Do you think that a group or community can be negatively perceived by the general public because of the behaviour of a vocal and combative minority?
    It can play a part yes, but that's precisely what prejudice is. It's precisely the duty of anti-racism to challenge such a way of forming opinions about people. The context of John Speller made it clear he wasn't challenging it, but implicitly presenting it as a valid reason for hating gypsies.

    Also, worth pointing out that even by the "bad apple" theory of prejudice, antiziganism seems disproportionate. For example, hatred of Muslims for a minority that commit terrorist attacks is still noticeable less prevalent than hatred of gypsies for the minority who park caravans in awkward place or run off with someone's hammer.
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    I agree about the treatment of Native Americans/First Nation Persons in Canada-its a problem worldwide. I do think Canada is better than the United States' historical treatment of Native American/First Nation Persons and better than New Zealand and Australia.

    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Similar to how the native Americans are treated in Canada.

    You can talk to the most progressive liberal imaginable, or so you think, up until the subject turns to the natives.

    Scary thing is, had Hitler just targeted the gypsies rather than the jews, he'd probably be worshipped in half of Europe.
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    I'm not sure about your comment about a person making a racist statement about Jews or Black people in the situation being gone-I'd have to take your word for as you know UK politics and the UK better than me. I will see that it seems you do not have the same degree of concern about anti-Islamic statements and targeting of Muslims-but perhaps I'm misreading what you wrote about people from the press and being politically correct. In any event, ethnic slurs and mistreatment and discrimination against people based upon race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, national origin, or disability is absolutely wrong, yet we see it is on the rise and being mainstreamed every day under coded language about NOT being politically correct. Simply put, there are people, a great many people, who will never see someone different than themselves-in whatever way the other person or persons are different, as someone worthy of the respect and fair treatment that they want for themselves. Moreover, the golden rule-you find in many religions-treat others as you would want to be treated.(many people claim to be religious but instead of allowing themselves to made into better people who are seek to be kind in the treatment of others, they instead use the religion, whatever it may be called, to try to transform it into a vehicle of expression of their foolishness).

    (Original post by anarchism101)
    So the other day, in the midst of a debate about discrimination against one particular group, a Labour MP gets up and says: “Does my honourable friend accept that the public view of the community will continue to be shaped by the appalling behaviour of the minority, who bring absolute chaos to their own communities?”

    I'm sure we know that if he'd said it about Jews or Black people, he'd (quite rightly) be out before he even finished speaking. If the debate had been about Muslims, or Asians, or to a lesser extent Poles or Romanians, maybe a couple of Express or Mail columnists, or some obscure minor UKIP MEP, might have stood up for him and made the typical moans about "political correctness", but without a doubt it would still (again, quite rightly) be denounced by all the major parties and thrown out. Gay or Trans people? Would immediately (for good reason) be taken as proof by LGBT groups that British society still has a serious homophobia/transphobia problem.

    But instead he said it about gypsies, so that means it's all fine, right? No need for Labour to descend into bitter internal war for years over antiziganism (unlike the hairtrigger response to anything possibly construable as antisemitic), just like there was no need for the Tories to take any action when one of their MPs called gypsies "scum" who "do not deserve the same human rights as my decent constituents".
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    Don't even act like you care about gypsies. Five minutes from now you'll be calling them white trash and riff raff like everyone else does. I personally don't see what the issue is, they're just caravans. Must be issues stemming from England's long nasty history with Irish and Catholics so I'll just see myself out with my teacup. 😚☕

    Ugh and before any soul here gets triggered, I don't mean OP per se uses these kinds of slurs. 😑
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Similar to how the native Americans are treated in Canada.

    .
    Omg yes. 😔
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    Gypsies generally (outside the UK) refers to the Roma gypsies, a long-standing ethnic minority in Europe who originated from around India. The treatment of those kind of gypsies is far worse than what the Irish gypsies suffer.
    Oh right, but I do know they knock down Irish travellers houses and slur them off but I'm sure for ethnic reasons east-European gypsies are treated badly but assuming op is discussing reverse racism...he's on about the white gypsies.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    "East European gypsies" - that is one way to trigger an eastern European

    Oh yeah, you're right. I think I missed OP's angle.
    It's not a very good point he's trying to make anyway 😜
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I'm sure we know that if he'd said it about Jews or Black people, he'd (quite rightly) be out before he even finished speaking.
    I myself feel that the Roma are one of the most persecuted groups in Europe, along with Muslims, but I see no reason to play them off against Jewish and Black folk as if one group's loss is another's gain.
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    (Original post by Ganjaweed Rebel)
    I myself feel that the Roma are one of the most persecuted groups in Europe, along with Muslims, but I see no reason to play them off against Jewish and Black folk as if one group's loss is another's gain.
    I'm not trying to imply that, apologies if it comes across that way. I'm pointing out our strong vigilance against racism when it comes to other marginalised groups and questioning why it doesn't extend to Roma.
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    (Original post by Salt Queen)
    Don't even act like you care about gypsies. Five minutes from now you'll be calling them pikeys and white trash and riff raff like everyone else does.
    My mother is a Roma gypsy, so please kindly take your ******** assumptions elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    "East European gypsies" - that is one way to trigger an eastern European

    Oh yeah, you're right. I think I missed OP's angle.
    Yes talking about the romas apparently
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    (Original post by Salt Queen)
    Yeah SURE she is!!!
    What exactly are you trying to achieve on this thread?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    What exactly are you trying to achieve on this thread?
    I said what I had to say, you quoted me and swore at me, so I responded? Do you have a memory problem? Stop quoting me.
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    (Original post by Salt Queen)
    I said what I had to say, you quoted me and swore at me, so I responded? Do you have a memory problem? Stop quoting me.
    "Saying what you had to say" here meaning claiming I'm a racist while firing a load of racial slurs?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    "Saying what you had to say" here meaning claiming I'm a racist while firing a load of racial slurs?
    Stop reaching. Anyone with basic reading skills would see I was listing what people call gypsies. I even said I don't understand treatment against gypsies in the same post. You seem angry. Having a bad night? 😯
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    And where did I claim you were a racist?!!!
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    (Original post by Salt Queen)
    Don't even act like you care about gypsies. Five minutes from now you'll be calling them pikeys and white trash and riff raff like everyone else does. I personally don't see what the issue is, they're just caravans like Wtf. Must be issues stemming from England's long nasty history with Irish and Catholics aka white people problems so I'll just see myself out with my teacup. 😚☕

    Ugh and before any soul here gets triggered, I don't mean OP per se uses these kinds of slurs. 😑
    The issue is that they leave where they've been parked an absolute shithole that the council(and ultimately the local residents via taxation) have to pay to clean up. If they left places clean and tidy I doubt many people would care.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    The issue is that they leave where they've been parked an absolute shithole that the council(and ultimately the local residents via taxation) have to pay to clean up. If they left places clean and tidy I doubt many people would care.
    True ...when it applies...
 
 
 
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