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Should Obese people be treated by the NHS for free? Watch

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    (Original post by Kindred)
    That sounds like it could be much better. You can talk about how smoking and alcohol is more of an outright choice (although there is the addiction debate) and compare it to obesity which can have far more varied factors like medication, health issues etc.
    You might also want to bring up the right to healthcare and question if it is would be denying a human right to refuse treatment.

    You could also question if the government and society have some responsibility to people and if they are doing enough to deter those things or are contributing to the problem.
    Is it really my fault I'm fat if I'm being constantly bombarded by temptation in adverts, healthy food is more expensive and there isn't enough access to exercise?

    You'll have more than enough to talk about and should be able to cover it all well as long as you plan.
    Be sure to do your research too and include some sources.

    You could also go into a discussion on class. Poorer people are more likely to be obese so is it really reasonable to expect them to pay for treatment? What if people can't afford treatment or are on benefits? That could get a bit long though so you may not want to go into that.

    Good luck
    Thanks again and also what does that mean (highlighted in bold. i don't know what you mean by outright choice
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    Where would you draw the line on self inflicted medical problems? I mean, technically, the head injury I got in January was self inflicted and so is my asthma... (both caused by running)
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    (Original post by Seamus123)
    Er, I don't want to burst your bubble but in actual fact, Type 2 Diabetes is not caused by lifestyle choices and obesity in every instance. I have Type 2 Diabetes diagnosed about 2 years ago. I have had a muscle condition for the last ten years treated by steroids which caused my Diabetes. And I am not obese. I have never smoked or drunk alcohol in my life either and I am nearly 70.
    Never said it was??
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thanks again and also what does that mean (highlighted in bold. i don't know what you mean by outright choice
    What I mean there is that the only way people get into it is by choice. There are some influences like peer pressure, but you still need to choose to smoke or drink. Even in the case of addiction, you had to choose it to start with.

    Obesity is a bit more complicated since it can be caused by medical conditions, medications, a bit of ignorance towards how much you are consuming, not being able to afford healthier foods etc. There is still at least some choice involved in some cases, but there's a lot more scope for accidental obesity or obesity as a result of something out of your control.

    So arguably there's a lot more fault in the case of smoking and drinking (at least on average) than with obesity and the person in that situation has a lot more control over what happens.
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    (Original post by Kindred)
    What I mean there is that the only way people get into it is by choice. There are some influences like peer pressure, but you still need to choose to smoke or drink. Even in the case of addiction, you had to choose it to start with.

    Obesity is a bit more complicated since it can be caused by medical conditions, medications, a bit of ignorance towards how much you are consuming, not being able to afford healthier foods etc. There is still at least some choice involved in some cases, but there's a lot more scope for accidental obesity or obesity as a result of something out of your control.

    So arguably there's a lot more fault in the case of smoking and drinking (at least on average) than with obesity and the person in that situation has a lot more control over what happens.
    Thanks, last thing, all three factors have it's negatives and positives as to why they should/shouldn't get treated by the NHS for free but to reach an overall conclusion do you to consider all three factors (smoking, obese, alcohol) as I believe that if they choose that lifestyle by choice then they should not be treated and vice versa, you couldn't really reach an overall conclusion as it depends on why they choose that lifestyle
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    Unless it's paying for a nutritionist.


    I will say that obese people probably have tax funded health care like disability cheques anyway because of the issues that tend to come along with being obese
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    Slight spanner in the works here, but smokers pay a huge % tax on their purchases. This goes back into the system and (I assume) in part to the NHS.

    Surely this means something towards their contribution versus being refused treatment?
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    it isn't the job of the nhs to question if they should treat someone. it's their job to treat people. so yes, they should.
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    Nope, I have no sympathy for those who inflict illnesses on themselves, there is no reason my taxes should be stolen from me to pay for the chronic smokers or the obese. Not that I should have any duty to pay for anyone to get medical help, especially those who are causing their own problems
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Nope, I have no sympathy for those who inflict illnesses on themselves, there is no reason my taxes should be stolen from me to pay for the chronic smokers or the obese. Not that I should have any duty to pay for anyone to get medical help, especially those who are causing their own problems
    You aren't the only one paying taxes though. Smokers, alcoholics and obese people are too. Why shouldn't they get what they're paying for?

    Maybe I don't want to be paying for stupid kids drinking antifreeze to have their stomachs pumped or business men to get treatment because they were stupid enough to drive in the rain or college kids playing football or construction workers cos they have a risky job. People do stupid stuff all the time and literally everything involves risk. Doing something stupid doesn't mean you don't deserve to live.

    People have the right to healthcare and damn well should.
    The better thing to discuss is what treatment they should be allowed and under what circumstances.
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    (Original post by Kindred)
    What I mean there is that the only way people get into it is by choice. There are some influences like peer pressure, but you still need to choose to smoke or drink. Even in the case of addiction, you had to choose it to start with.

    Obesity is a bit more complicated since it can be caused by medical conditions, medications, a bit of ignorance towards how much you are consuming, not being able to afford healthier foods etc. There is still at least some choice involved in some cases, but there's a lot more scope for accidental obesity or obesity as a result of something out of your control.

    So arguably there's a lot more fault in the case of smoking and drinking (at least on average) than with obesity and the person in that situation has a lot more control over what happens.
    You also have the issue of that you need food to live. You don't need alcohol or cigarettes to live.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You also have the issue of that you need food to live. You don't need alcohol or cigarettes to live.
    Exactly. It's far easier to end up loosing control a little or not keeping track properly and end up eating too much or not the right stuff than it is to deliberately buy a separate thing just because you want to.
    I'll admit that some people are fat at least partially by their own fault, but it's unfair to treat it as the same level of "deliberate" as smoking or drinking is. Weight is far more complicated than that.
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    (Original post by Kindred)
    You aren't the only one paying taxes though. Smokers, alcoholics and obese people are too. Why shouldn't they get what they're paying for?

    Maybe I don't want to be paying for stupid kids drinking antifreeze to have their stomachs pumped or business men to get treatment because they were stupid enough to drive in the rain or college kids playing football or construction workers cos they have a risky job. People do stupid stuff all the time and literally everything involves risk. Doing something stupid doesn't mean you don't deserve to live.

    People have the right to healthcare and damn well should.
    The better thing to discuss is what treatment they should be allowed and under what circumstances.

    Yes but that leads to the question of should we all be paying for healthcare through taxes or do we need some kind of tarrif system where a healthy young non smoking man pays less than a obese middle aged smoker who also drinks far too often. Not a stupidly expensive tarrif but if the man then has to sacrifice a bottle of jack a month to pay for the extra tarrif then so be it.
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    No it wastes money. It's a problem they can fix by themselves, something like cancer or epilepsy cannot fix themselves.
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    The problem with people getting taxpayer-funded treatment for self-inflicted problems is that then their lifestyles suddenly become everyone else's business. If we want obese people to be treated for related problems on the NHS it seems that we also have to tolerate government bureaucrats running around telling private businesses how much sugar they can put in their products, and this affects everyone, not just the obese. Query how happy you are with this trade-off, OP.
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    (Original post by mariejuana)
    No it wastes money. It's a problem they can fix by themselves, something like cancer or epilepsy cannot fix themselves.
    it's not that straightforward. We're not talking about the guy who just needs to lose a few pounds.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Yes but that leads to the question of should we all be paying for healthcare through taxes or do we need some kind of tarrif system where a healthy young non smoking man pays less than a obese middle aged smoker who also drinks far too often. Not a stupidly expensive tarrif but if the man then has to sacrifice a bottle of jack a month to pay for the extra tarrif then so be it.
    Problem would be enforcing that sort of thing and deciding where to draw the line.
    Sure it sucks to be paying towards something you may never use, but at least it's going towards something good. Frankly, they would probably charge the same tax if they got rid of the NHS altogether. It'd just go to something else.

    It's not great for some people, but it's kinda the only way to do it. Doing anything like tariffs would be getting into private insurance territory and completely break the point of the NHS. You're opening the doors to me having to pay more cos I have an autoimmune problem completely out of my control or parents paying more os their kid has a peanut allergy. Once a system is in place that allows people to be judged by condition and probability of needing treatment it's easy for it to be abused later.
    Think of it as insurance if you want to. You'd need to be paying something either way.

    I guess you could give people the ability to opt out if they want to go private instead and have a separate rate for just emergency services.
    But again, it would be complicated working it all out and implementing it.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hey everyone, I am in sixth form and completing an EPQ (extended project qualification) and wanted to know your views/ opinions on this.
    Any opinions are welcome, thanks very much for your time,
    Well it’s a health issue so yes and obesity costs the nhs loads as well so it’s cost saving too
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    (Original post by Kindred)
    Problem would be enforcing that sort of thing and deciding where to draw the line.
    Sure it sucks to be paying towards something you may never use, but at least it's going towards something good. Frankly, they would probably charge the same tax if they got rid of the NHS altogether. It'd just go to something else.

    It's not great for some people, but it's kinda the only way to do it. Doing anything like tariffs would be getting into private insurance territory and completely break the point of the NHS. You're opening the doors to me having to pay more cos I have an autoimmune problem completely out of my control or parents paying more os their kid has a peanut allergy. Once a system is in place that allows people to be judged by condition and probability of needing treatment it's easy for it to be abused later.
    Think of it as insurance if you want to. You'd need to be paying something either way.

    I guess you could give people the ability to opt out if they want to go private instead and have a separate rate for just emergency services.
    But again, it would be complicated working it all out and implementing it.

    Lets just say rates go up from £1 a month (I have not done any calulations about the viability of this just using it as an example)
    Lets say you are pretty healthy, you dont smoke or drink heavily and you eat sensibly, you might pay £1.20 a month. Someone who Smokes who is obese and drinks a lot might pay £2.50 a month.

    It would not be an insane amount just a bit more. but still I want to make the NHS privatized slowly over time but that is a whole different argument that I dont really have the time for at the moment
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Lets just say rates go up from £1 a month (I have not done any calulations about the viability of this just using it as an example)
    Lets say you are pretty healthy, you dont smoke or drink heavily and you eat sensibly, you might pay £1.20 a month. Someone who Smokes who is obese and drinks a lot might pay £2.50 a month.

    It would not be an insane amount just a bit more. but still I want to make the NHS privatized slowly over time but that is a whole different argument that I dont really have the time for at the moment
    Yeah but who's going to actually admit to smoking heavily and how much would it cost to round up all the people who do AND keep the list up to date with people who start smoking, cut down, quit etc?
    It's just not worth the effort.

    Maybe have a couple of different schemes that cover different things and have people choose the best fit for them. One for just emergency care, one for illness cover too and one that also includes lifestyle related or more cosmetic stuff.
    It's like your idea, but people will have the motivation to be honest and if they aren't and they aren't covered for something they have to pay an amount to top up to the right plan and then stay on it.
    Emergency would be the basic that everybody pays and some things would be added. It could also be used to make some cosmetic surgeries more available to people while not offering them for free.

    That seems like a better option to me if you were going to go down that sort of route. You still have the issue of defining what certain things count as, but there's not as much complication and maintenance to it because people are responsible for keeping on the right plan.
 
 
 
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