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Should Obese people be treated by the NHS for free? watch

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    Charging people who are going to have an increased burden on the healthcare system due to their lifestyle choices is a terrible idea: People who have unhealthy lifestyles commonly become motivated to change as a direct result of contact with the healthcare system. Early contact can prevent the most serious, and as such expensive, complications. of those choices. There is a reason that developed nations spend a fortune on health promotion and public health, prevention really does beat a cure.

    Charging for healthcare keeps people away from medical professionals till matters become serious and they can no longer make do with their status quo. This might sound great with the current shortages of nurses and doctors but it means that by the time they seek medical help the damage is much more expensive to fix. Depending on the problem it might not be fixable at all.

    Health care is really expensive. Really really expensive. Lifestyle related illness correlates very closely with socio-economic status and wealth, those who present with these kind of conditions are overwhelmingly poor. Recovering the cost from them of say a major operation and 17 days in a hospital bed is just not going to happen. The NHS is going to stump up the money at some point anyway, better that a free doctors appointment turns things around early than the NHS has to manage another person in crisis.
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    (Original post by Nefarious)
    Charging people who are going to have an increased burden on the healthcare system due to their lifestyle choices is a terrible idea: People who have unhealthy lifestyles commonly become motivated to change as a direct result of contact with the healthcare system. Early contact can prevent the most serious, and as such expensive, complications. of those choices. There is a reason that developed nations spend a fortune on health promotion and public health, prevention really does beat a cure.

    Charging for healthcare keeps people away from medical professionals till matters become serious and they can no longer make do with their status quo. This might sound great with the current shortages of nurses and doctors but it means that by the time they seek medical help the damage is much more expensive to fix. Depending on the problem it might not be fixable at all.

    Health care is really expensive. Really really expensive. Lifestyle related illness correlates very closely with socio-economic status and wealth, those who present with these kind of conditions are overwhelmingly poor. Recovering the cost from them of say a major operation and 17 days in a hospital bed is just not going to happen. The NHS is going to stump up the money at some point anyway, better that a free doctors appointment turns things around early than the NHS has to manage another person in crisis.
    Sorry I don't really know what you mean, so they should have access to free treatment or shouldn't?
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    Hey thanks everyone , I changed and finalised my EPQ question:
    Should the NHS treat people, depening on negative lifestyle choices.
    So what do you guys think about smoker's and alcohol related cases- do you think they should/or shouldn't be treated by the NHS
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hey thanks everyone , I changed and finalised my EPQ question:
    Should the NHS treat people, depening on negative lifestyle choices.
    So what do you guys think about smoker's and alcohol related cases- do you think they should/or shouldn't be treated by the NHS
    Yes, but with conditions like cutting back, quitting or attending rehab for things relating to smoking/ drinking.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Sorry I don't really know what you mean, so they should have access to free treatment or shouldn't?
    The point of my post was that by catching a condition early, or even before poor lifestyle choices contribute to a condition you save a fortune. Charging people for their health care means you will normally only catch these conditions when it's too late. By charging at point of use the NHS will almost certainly lose money in the long term rather than making savings.

    It doesn't matter what group of people you talk about, the obese, smokers, the elderly, people of south east asian ethnic origin; charging them for their health care at point of use will have a large hidden financial burden that will come as that group becomes sicker over time and as such will place a higher demand on services. You can't solve this problem by charging people from that group the actual cost of their procedures, it's only a tiny minority who could afford it.

    So yes, treat them for free, treat them early and invest in education.
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    If upon hearing advice from a doctor to lose weight, and the person fails to act on it, I would put the person at a lower priority for surgery until they lose the weight they need to. Just like those with alcoholism are put as low priority for kidney surgery until they stop drinking.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hey everyone, I am in sixth form and completing an EPQ (extended project qualification) and wanted to know your views/ opinions on this.
    Any opinions are welcome, thanks very much for your time,
    Interesting question. And not one I can see any kind of valid "yes they should have to pay from"

    One massive issue - If you measure obesity through BMI, some incredibly muscular people are considered morbidly obese. We all pay taxes, and get free health care for a reason.

    I guess one point of your argument (when you construct the idea that they should have to pay) may be that in most cases it's their own fault and theyre in control. But then, by that logic, should those with mental health issues have to pay because its not a physical disease?

    (Within your EPQ you'll have to look at both sides, which is hard because one is a fair bit clearer than the other) but good luck.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    II guess one point of your argument may be that in most cases it's their own fault and theyre in control. But then, by that logic, should those with mental health issues have to pay because its not a physical disease?.
    "by that logic" implies that those two arguments are somehow connected.... :confused:
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    "by that logic" implies that those two arguments are somehow connected.... :confused:
    Well, in a comparative sense - Yes.
    If someone wants to use the logic of "Well it's a mental process therefore you can just work a bit harder to break it" (which are the stigma's of over eating and some mental issues) then, "by that logic" (flawed as it seriously is) allows to compare the two.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    Well, in a comparative sense - Yes.
    If someone wants to use the logic of "Well it's a mental process therefore you can just work a bit harder to break it" (which are the stigma's of over eating and some mental issues) then, "by that logic" (flawed as it seriously is) allows to compare the two.
    I'd seriously disagree with the "most cases" bit of your previous post. But thank you for explaining.

    PET scans can be pretty interesting:







    Tbh, I read the whole thread and think OP has put very little thought into his whole argument.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I'd seriously disagree with the "most cases" bit of your previous post. But thank you for explaining.

    However, PET scans can be pretty interesting:







    Tbh, I read the whole thread and think OP has put very little thought into his whole argument.
    Ah, I didn't explain that well. As in, most people who are obese it's not because of a medical condition that, it's to do with personal struggle with food etc. That leaves some people (Which I completely disagree with) to argue that they're in control of it.

    You're right - The situations are different, depression is a chemical imbalance so it could hardly be argued that's down to the fault of anyone.

    The idea that anyone who's a certain weight (or, as I chose to compare it to to highlight how ridiculous it was) those who suffer from mental diseases shouldn't get something we're all entitled to is a bit odd.

    I agree. The question itself is vague, and could be taken a few different ways.
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    I believe that over weight people should have access to free healthcare on the NHS. I am a size 16 but only because I have a colegen deficiency and therefore I can't exercise. I eat normally. I rarely eat things like McDonald and KFC. I also diet with slimming world but as I say I can't exercise. not everyone inflicts weight problems on themselves. please consider this fact.
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    (Original post by Beckstudies)
    If upon hearing advice from a doctor to lose weight, and the person fails to act on it, I would put the person at a lower priority for surgery until they lose the weight they need to. Just like those with alcoholism are put as low priority for kidney surgery until they stop drinking.
    But how do you know if they failed to act on it, couldn't act on it or did try and failed to get a result?
    It's too complex an issue to have such a black and white rule and any less black and white rule would use up a lot of resources and have a lot of potential for error.
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    No they should not be treated- they are fat and wasting NHS resources- all that NHS money can be used to buy other things which will have a larger imapct (a positive one). Obese people are fat and should exercise!!
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    (Original post by will'o'wisp2)
    lol i don't know much about legal law stuff and how things work

    but i still stand by the point of why should(now corrected by you) the public health service fix you up for you hurting yourself?

    Is that what this service is for? Fixing people who gives themselves these kinds of illnesses?
    Well the NHS treats people who are mentally ill and self harm, and drug users, and alcoholics, and any number of conditions that can be seen as self inflicted, including people who need fixing because they’ve been speeding and trashed their cars, or have got drunk, fallen down and broken their noses, or who play contact sports, etc etc. It’s the same thing. People’s choices make some difference, but so do the circumstances that lead them to make them, and their genetics, and everything else about their lives. In this way most “self-inflicted” conditions aren’t really self inflicted at all; how can any of us ever say we’d have chosen differently if in that person’s shoes??

    Plus, with obesity specifically, it’s of much higher incidence in lower socioeconomic classes in the UK, mainly because cheap food is less healthy - like cheap cuts of meat are often very fatty - so if you discriminate treatment on the basis of weight, it will disproportionately affect people who are poorer. There’s also certain ethnic groups that are more likely to put weight on in a western diet and are more prone to weight-related conditions like diabetes, so you’d also be disproportionately affecting them.

    Tl;dr you don’t know to what extent any illness or injury is self-inflicted, and not treating people on the basis of weight also has wider-reaching discriminatory consequences.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    No they should not be treated- they are fat and wasting NHS resources- all that NHS money can be used to buy other things which will have a larger imapct (a positive one). Obese people are fat and should exercise!!
    If only exercising was so easy. You know that some people are obese due to their medication or a medical condition, don't you?

    They would also cost the NHS more due to obesity related illnesses.
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    (Original post by will'o'wisp2)
    and that's where the discussion of why should someone fix you up because you inflicted the problems upon yourself
    Well, perhaps, by the same token, those that take alcohol, tobacco, or illegal drugs as well as those who speed in cars, fail to wear seatbelts and those who jaywalk should be excluded too. When you eliminate those who have unprotected sex, or who visit ill people the only person left covered is a baby in Lincolnshire who was born yesterday.
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    (Original post by will'o'wisp2)
    and that's where the discussion of why should someone fix you up because you inflicted the problems upon yourself
    That's me screwed then - I managed to give myself a head injury (amongst other painful things) running one morning.

    But if I sat on my arse all day and did nothing that wouldn't have happened. I'd probably just be overweight instead...
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    If only exercising was so easy. You know that some people are obese due to their medication or a medical condition, don't you?

    They would also cost the NHS more due to obesity related illnesses.
    Research- the main cause of obesity is habit and behaviour- thus, this overpowers the fact that they should pay for their treatment, also smokers and alcoholism likewise
 
 
 
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