Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Balliol JCR bans Christian group stand at freshers fair Watch

Announcements
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Golden State)
    I don't understand why there's so much hatred for Christianity in the UK.
    Fancy saying that in reply to my theory on why that is happening. Not a good one?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    What "such loathing" and "hatred"? To what are you referring? Be specific, if you please.
    What do you think got religion banned from this traditional event at one of the most emblematic educational British institutions?

    Whatever it was, it's powerful stuff. Your opinion?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by zhog)
    What do you think got religion banned from this traditional event at one of the most emblematic educational British institutions?

    Whatever it was, it's strong stuff. Your opinion?
    The CU at a single college at one university, out of 230 universities in the UK, couldn't set up a stand. I disagree with that decision, but to claim (as GoldenState did) that Christianity is suffering from widespread discrimination, hatred and abuse is rather pathetic and very much a victimhood mindset.

    I guess if someone is determined to feel like a victim, then they will and there's little I can do about it. But that's really not so different from left-wing identity politics practitioners who obsess over victimhood and claiming they are discriminated-against
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The CU at a single college at one university, out of 230 universities in the UK, couldn't set up a stand. I disagree with that decision, but to claim (as GoldenState did) that Christianity is suffering from widespread discrimination, hatred and abuse is rather pathetic and very much a victimhood mindset.
    That's the one Uni I was referring to, as well as the OP.To focus on it and because we both seem to feel the same way about it... can I ask you again why do you think it happened. I've already offered a conspiracy theory, what's yours?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by zhog)
    Fancy saying that in reply to my theory on why that is happening. Not a good one?
    I don't understand what you're trying to say. Not everything is linked to immigration, but it's more so about people's cultural and social attitudes towards reformed religions like Christianity.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    The CU at a single college at one university, out of 230 universities in the UK, couldn't set up a stand. I disagree with that decision, but to claim (as GoldenState did) that Christianity is suffering from widespread discrimination, hatred and abuse is rather pathetic and very much a victimhood mindset.

    I guess if someone is determined to feel like a victim, then they will and there's little I can do about it. But that's really not so different from left-wing identity politics practitioners who obsess over victimhood and claiming they are discriminated-against
    I never made such claims about the Christian victimhood complex, so I would appreciate it if you could kindly refrain from making such false claims. I was merely making a point about the negative cultural and social attitudes towards the majority religion of the UK, which I don't think is good for British society. I also made the important point about the role of Christianity in shaping the UK.

    Let's say if the UK had been an Islamic country for the last 1,000 years, would we have the same values and the same scientific and social progress that we have today? I think you will find that the answer is No.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    ....Also, your argument that those bigoted, reactionary, hateful people are not true Christians is also thereby dismissed. As long as they believe in the Nicene Creed then they are saved, no matter how horrid and regressive they are.
    I think you have a fairly regressive and old fashioned view of Christianity.

    The Nicene Creed

    "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
    “And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

    Whilst there is truth in the above creed, this is by no means a statement to guarantee you entry to heaven and an eternity in God's presence.

    In the Book of Matthew it says "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who practice evil!'"

    and in Luke 13:25 After the master of the house gets up and shuts the door, you will stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' But he will reply, 'I do not know where you are from.'
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    "This sort of alienation or micro-aggression is regularly dismissed as not important enough to report"

    Man has evolved into a kind of hypochondriac species.

    What would we have heard if it was a Muslim group though.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Golden State)
    I don't understand what you're trying to say. Not everything is linked to immigration, but it's more so about people's cultural and social attitudes towards reformed religions like Christianity.
    Some people, many atheists themselves disagree with political gestures like these at our Unis. Religion can have a stall but unmanned only, to protect whoever needs protecting from their presence at freshers. An open and self-confident move as part of a political agenda, stuff the stall. I've never been religious in my life.

    Presumably, newbies will go on to mix with those people they can't see at freshers. Ah, the safe spaces. And one day when they graduate into life they will be well prepared to deal with incorrect views in the work space, no doubt. Oh yes, if we haven't got that just yet we will one day. That's how they recruit their useful idiots, to paraphrase Lenin. Victims,more like.

    Winning an argument by discussing it is not the Left's game, hence the unmanned stall, the safe spaces, the de-platforming, the need to insulate people, the barracking and primitive shouting down of anyone with a different opinion under a tonne of slurs. Quite often, totally unjustified. Not always though, I'll give them that.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    I think you have a fairly regressive and old fashioned view of Christianity.
    The user to whom I was responding was himself advocating a solia gratia / sola fide view of Christianity, which therefore invalidates his claim that racist, homophobic reactionaries are not "true Christians". His view of Christianity is that 'works' don't matter; faith does.

    The point of that is that it serves to undermine his claim that charity and compassion are inherent in Christianity
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by zhog)
    Winning an argument by discussing it is not the Left's game
    There is no monolithic "the left". We are as diverse as the right.

    I would not dare to claim that the people in Charlottesville represent the right. Please don't imply that some Assadist tankie at Balliol represents the left.

    Indeed, as I mentioned above there are many of us who are disgusted by the antics of these people, who are in any case probably best described as 'pseudo-left'. I quote from my post above;

    I'm a socialist in the true, old-school sense; my socialism is based on a hard economic critique of capitalism and the inequity of class relations, not on identity politics or wet liberal guilt.

    The preposterous words I quoted, which justify the ban by reference to "micro-aggressions" and "neo-colonialism", are indicative of the whiney snowflake mentality of many who claim to be on the left but whose entire conception of being on the left revolves around obsession with identity politics and feel-good causes that do nothing to advance the economic interests of the working and middle-classes.
    True leftism must be centred around a hard economic critique of labour relations and the capitalist economy. I think the people you identify as representing the left (and they believe they do too) are in fact simply wet, snowflakey liberals.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I would not dare to claim that the people in Charlottesville represent the right. Please don't imply that some Assadist tankie at Balliol represents the left.
    That is fair enough and let me tell I admire your stance, all the time in the world for people like you. Presumably, we share reservations about the way the 'mainstream media' refers to everyone down there as neo-Nazis then. That is the way their opponents are categorized, anti-racist, anti-Nazi, anti white-supremacist, by tagging them as such, the media are imprinting the notion that it is legitimate to disrupt them in any way. And that everyone on the right of those events represents racism, Nazi-ism, white supremacy and all that stuff the mainstream media 'report'. That is no objective journalism, it is politically biased and manipulative journalism. Trump fails to condemn Nazis, therefore he is a Nazi. And then people moan he has a pop at the media... Then that becomes the news, all day long at the usual outlets.

    You know, it's precisely this type of Left that undermines all their credibility in my eyes. I do see good in it somewhere, one has to be close-minded or ideologically conditioned not to and in the end all balanced people want just one thing: a better world, how to get there is the political debate to be had. There is far too much of the Communist and dictatorial element within the Left and the current Labour Party, we can't ignore it and it's only too bad more lefties aren't as rational as you are. These guys turn me into a hardened right-winger under any definition we care to apply. The anti-fascists are the real fascists, unlike we are told incessantly. By someone.

    ps, you're not a real leftie.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    If god id real, why does he need a stand or faith?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by zhog)
    That is fair enough and let me tell I admire your stance, all the time in the world for people like you. Presumably, we share reservations about the way the 'mainstream media' refers to everyone down there as neo-Nazis then.
    Not as such. When I said that I wouldn't assume Charlottesville represents the right, that's because I despise what happened at Charlottesville and what it represents and I wouldn't tar the entire right with that brush. I believe the alt-right is an extremely racist movement, and I believe Trump is the worst president the United States has ever had (and probably a traitor and Russian shill).

    The chants of "The Jews will not replace us" at Charlottesville represent where the alt-right is heading. Anyone who went along to Charlottesville is either actively racist (presumably you wouldn't deny that people bearing Swastika flags are racists) or are so contemptuous of racism as an issue, and so hysterically worked up about "Social Justice Warriors", that they would happily march alongside Nazis.

    My intention was to distinguish that from my many friends who are conservatives, not radical right-wingers. I appreciate my conservative friends because, like I do, they appreciate the superiority of Anglosphere institutions and the rule of law. They despise demagogues. They are, like I am, hawkish on foreign policy. Within the right there are many variations of opinion distinct from what I just described. But I do not consider the 'alt-right' to be part of the legitimate right any anyone who buys into the Trump / Breitbart / Alex Jones view of the world has completely lost touch with any sense of proportion and decency.

    Trump fails to condemn Nazis, therefore he is a Nazi. And then people moan he has a pop at the media... Then that becomes the news, all day long at the usual outlets.
    Trump is a crybaby manchild who should have condemned the Nazis. He didn't condemn them because he's so stupid that he thinks they're his base and that he has to keep them happy. The whining about media bias sounds pretty snowflakey to me. I'm sorry but it sounds like we have very little in common.

    The difference between you and me is that there is no nuance in your politics. You make comments like "The left hate debate". This is typical of the crude thinking on the alt-right, and the way that the alt-right's entire worldview is set up around conflict and opposition to "leftists" and "SJWs" and making hysterical and laughable claims about how the entire left is violent and a threat.

    I don't make any claims for what "the right" is. As I said, I have many conservative friends and there are many conservative tendencies I appreciate (respect for the rule of law, an appreciation for traditional institutions, a strong national defence, an appreciation of the rural lifestyle, riding/shooting etc). But those things I appreciate within the right are not shared by the alt-right, which is a radical and extremist tendency.

    The anti-fascists are the real fascists
    Utterly ridiculous comment. An anti-fascist is by definition anyone who opposes fascism. Any tendency that is anti-totalitarian is to be lauded.

    The reality is that the alt-right is just the far-right mirror image of the hard-left. Its views are completely outside of the mainstream. Both sides, probably about 3% of the population at either end, just endlessly wind each other up. But ultimately, there is not a moral equivalence between them. You will not find anything as offensive as "The Jews will not replace us" on the hard left.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AlexanderHam)


    My intention was to distinguish that from my many friends who are conservatives, not radical right-wingers. I appreciate my conservative friends because, like I do, they appreciate the superiority of Anglosphere institutions and the rule of law. They despise demagogues. They are, like I am, hawkish on foreign policy. Within the right there are many variations of opinion distinct from what I just described. But I do not consider the 'alt-right' to be part of the legitimate right any anyone who buys into the Trump / Breitbart / Alex Jones view of the world has completely lost touch with any sense of proportion and decency.
    You say that like it's a good thing
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: October 19, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.