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Debate: Should schools have gender-neutral bathrooms for transgender students? Watch

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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    Schools should have gender-neutral loos only, not male, female and transexual.
    Getting rid of urinals is discriminatory to males. It would mean that males would be waiting in long queues unnecessarily. It would also increase queue times for everyone else trying to use fewer toilets with more people trying to use them.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Getting rid of urinals is discriminatory to males. It would mean that males would be waiting in long queues unnecessarily. It would also increase queue times for everyone else trying to use fewer toilets with more people trying to use them.
    Urinals are vulgar regardless. Removing them is not discriminatory, only civilised. Girls currently suffer long queues while males none at all. This is inefficient. The reason why the waiting time is longer for women is that they spend more time inside (and in front of the mirror), not that boys have urinals. This must be true since at both my school and university there are none, yet there were/are no queues for males.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Getting rid of urinals is discriminatory to males. It would mean that males would be waiting in long queues unnecessarily. It would also increase queue times for everyone else trying to use fewer toilets with more people trying to use them.
    I agree, but we could simply have a urinal section in the gender-neutral toilets.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    Urinals are vulgar regardless. Removing them is not discriminatory, only civilised. Girls currently suffer long queues while males none at all. This is inefficient. The reason why the waiting time is longer for women is that they spend more time inside (and in front of the mirror), not that boys have urinals. This must be true since at both my school and university there are none, yet there were/are no queues for males.
    If you remove urinals - everyone loses out. But males much more than females.

    The males who used to have very short (if any) queues - will suddenly have long queues, and females who used to have long queues will then have even longer queues because of all the males now queuing up for the same facilities.
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    As a person who is transgender (ftm) I really couldn't care less. And in fact it would probably just draw attention to me which is something I am trying to avoid anyway. Going into a gender neutral bathroom would just make everyone think, "oh, they're trans". And considering that I just want to be normal would be the opposite of what I want.

    In my experience, people who are calling for gender neutral toilets tend to be doing it for a political statement rather than actually caring about the people they're doing it for. If it's really such a huge issue for the minority of people who struggle with this then exceptions should be made on a case by case basis. For example, disabled toilets or staff ones.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    If you remove urinals - everyone loses out. But males much more than females.

    The males who used to have very short (if any) queues - will suddenly have long queues, and females who used to have long queues will then have even longer queues because of all the males now queuing up for the same facilities.
    The idea is to replace a men's and a female's with one of the same capacity. With space-efficiency of one single facility, this gender-neutral one should even have higher capacity than the sum of the two. Therefore, girls will definitely enjoy shorter waiting times.

    I have already explained why the removal of urinals won't have a particularly strong effect on waiting time.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    The idea is to replace a men's and a female's with one of the same capacity. With space-efficiency of one single facility, this gender-neutral one should even have higher capacity than the sum of the two. Therefore, girls will definitely enjoy shorter waiting times.

    I have already explained why the removal of urinals won't have a particularly strong effect on waiting time.
    Urinals have a greater capacity than cubicle toilets and they get used much faster.

    Just because you've explained something doesn't make it correct. Queues in womens toilets are not down to the mirrors. It's because women take longer to use the toilet.
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    (Original post by Trinculo)
    Urinals have a greater capacity than cubicle toilets and they get used much faster.

    Just because you've explained something doesn't make it correct. Queues in womens toilets are not down to the mirrors. It's because women take longer to use the toilet.
    I said they take longer.

    It's not necessarily absolute proof, but in my experience, even without urinals (which by the way I consider indecent on the workplace and in schools), there are no queues for men.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    urinals (which by the way I consider indecent on the workplace and in schools)
    The world isn't going to stop using urinals because of prissy people who are scared to be seen even by people of their own sex, you know.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    The world isn't going to stop using urinals because of prissy people who are scared to be seen even by people of their own sex, you know.
    I'm not demanding them to be removed, I just can't see how people find them proper. As far as I'm concerned, we can have urinals in gender-neutral loos.

    In my school there was none, neither in my uni. No one makes a scene about it.
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    Yes. It's not just trans and non-binary children who'd use them. Many wouldn't care and would happily use them if they were less busy, and gay children who are routinely bullied over their sexuality would very often prefer them. It doesn't harm anyone and it would help many, so why on earth not? Of course gendered toilets should remain an option too for those who prefer them.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    we can have urinals in gender-neutral loos.
    I don't see how. They'd have to be in a separate section from the cubicles, which would make them a non-gender neutral place. You'd end up with gender-neutral girl's toilets which males have to pass through, and male toilets. The worst possible outcome.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I don't see how. They'd have to be in a separate section from the cubicles, which would make them a non-gender neutral place. You'd end up with gender-neutral girl's toilets which males have to pass through, and male toilets. The worst possible outcome.
    you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.
    Ok. You had me going for a while. Well played.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    you can have the urinal in the same room of the cubicles, just like some male loos today.
    Who do you think would be happier about that, the males or the females? You have already told us of your squeamishness at pointing Percy to the porcelain in front of males; what about doing it in front of females?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Who do you think would be happier about that, the males or the females? You have already told us of your squeamishness at pointing Percy to the porcelain in front of males; what about doing it in front of females?
    I'd personally use the cubicles, but if someone finds urinals preferable, why not add this option?
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    If, very rarely, a child is very uncomfortable with using one of the two normal sets of toilet facilities, can't they use the disabled toilet? Don't most schools have one of those? Because they are gender neutral, and would appear to solve any problem.

    Beyond that I am against any steps being taken that might lead children to conclude that society has to change, to the point that buildings must be remodelled, to accommodate particular individuals' feelings.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    If, very rarely, a child is very uncomfortable with using one of the two normal sets of toilet facilities, can't they use the disabled toilet? Don't most schools have one of those? Because they are gender neutral, and would appear to solve any problem.

    Beyond that I am against any steps being taken that might lead children to conclude that society has to change, to the point that buildings must be remodelled, to accommodate particular individuals' feelings.
    That would force the child to come out of the closet to the school to request permission, and then come up with some explanation for their peers as to why they were using a different toilet to everyone else. That's far from a solution. Right now there's children who avoid using the toilet all day rather than face these issues, whether that's because they're transgender or (in the case of boys in particular) bullied for some other reason that makes them feel vulnerable using a gendered toilet. That's a health issue, not just "individuals' feelings". The availability of gender neutral facilities would make a significant number of children far more comfortable at school and reduce bullying at in most cases zero cost - you could easily designate a couple of existing loos as gender-neutral while keeping gendered ones elsewhere.
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    (Original post by usualsuspects)
    I'd personally use the cubicles, but if someone finds urinals preferable, why not add this option?
    I think you'd find that there would be uproar, especially from the parents of thirteen-year old girls who were expected to share the facilities used by eighteen-year old boys.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    I think you'd find that there would be uproar, especially from the parents of thirteen-year old girls who were expected to share the facilities used by eighteen-year old boys.
    The girls would use the cubicles. With a rational organisation of the space, one could ensure that people wishing to go to the cubicles don't have to pass close to the urinals. But I agree that sacrificing the dreadful urinals is the simplest and safer option.
 
 
 
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