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    Do you see the birds above you? Do you see the mountains erect? Why do you ask for more and more evidence as if you have no eyes or ears to see or hear, and if you do not perhaps I won't be reaching you anyway.
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    (Original post by Dragon5555)
    Do you see the birds above you? Do you see the mountains erect? Why do you ask for more and more evidence as if you have no eyes or ears to see or hear, and if you do not perhaps I won't be reaching you anyway.
    Birds and mountains are not evidence for God. I'm not asking for more evidence, I'm asking for any evidence at all.
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    Erm there's a ceiling in the way of the birds above me and the nearest mountains are ages away.
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    Atheism is the exact same as theism. Both equally illogical.
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    (Original post by Dragon5555)
    Do you see the birds above you? Do you see the mountains erect? Why do you ask for more and more evidence as if you have no eyes or ears to see or hear, and if you do not perhaps I won't be reaching you anyway.
    Just because you are incapable of understanding these things, without recourse to a god, doesn't mean that others don't. If we don't understand something, the first step is to attempt to, not say 'god did it'.
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    (Original post by Dragon5555)
    Do you see the birds above you? Do you see the mountains erect? Why do you ask for more and more evidence as if you have no eyes or ears to see or hear, and if you do not perhaps I won't be reaching you anyway.
    Yeah, I think you're right with that last part. All of these are natural phenomena.
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    I'm not even an atheist and I think "it's beautiful, therefore God" is a moronic argument.
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    (Original post by PoliticsandP)
    Atheism is the exact same as theism. Both equally illogical.
    Do you think that its equally illogical to believe and not believe in fairies?

    Atheism is only the rejection of the claim that a god(s) exist. It can include the belief that they don't, but that isn't necessary to be an Atheist.
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    Stop creating these threads. You aren't going to convince anyone.
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    Do you think that its equally illogical to believe and not believe in fairies?

    Atheism is only the rejection of the claim that a god(s) exist. It can include the belief that they don't, but that isn't necessary to be an Atheist.
    Not necessary? Take it out of your equation and what do you leave yourself with?
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    (Original post by PoliticsandP)
    Atheism is the exact same as theism. Both equally illogical.
    Care to amuse us with the correct answer to this question?
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    Do you think that its equally illogical to believe and not believe in fairies?

    Atheism is only the rejection of the claim that a god(s) exist. It can include the belief that they don't, but that isn't necessary to be an Atheist.
    Yes, it is equally as illogical to be convinced of a creator as to be sure that there isn't one.

    You've actually stumbled upon a very long and complex debate about what 'atheism' actually means. Most atheists I've encountered support the completely irrational militant atheism Dawkins promotes. While what you described is what many consider to be 'Agnostic atheism' which I would concede is more rational, and is in line with my own beliefs.
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    (Original post by PoliticsandP)
    Atheism is the exact same as theism. Both equally illogical.
    Lol what how is it illogical to lack a belief in God? As far as I can see it is the only logical position to have. Anti-theism does seem somewhat illogical though.
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    (Original post by Dragon5555)
    Not necessary? Take it out of your equation and what do you leave yourself with?
    The lack of acceptance of the claim that a god(s) exist, typically due to lack of evidence. That does not imply that you believe that they don't, just that you're not convinced that they do. Many Atheists are almost certain that a god(s) don't exist though - the lack of any evidence being a major factor.
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    (Original post by PoliticsandP)
    You've actually stumbled upon a very long and complex debate about what 'atheism' actually means. Most atheists I've encountered support the completely irrational militant atheism Dawkins promotes.
    He accepts that there is a possibility of a god, is fairly sure that there isn't, but not certain.

    While what you described is what many consider to be 'Agnostic atheism' which I would concede is more rational, and is in line with my own beliefs.
    Would your position be the same on fairies?
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    (Original post by zeldor711)
    Lol what how is it illogical to lack a belief in God? As far as I can see it is the only logical position to have. Anti-theism does seem somewhat illogical though.
    There is no evidence of god. Equally, there is no evidence of a lack of god, nor will there ever be, sadly. The most rational belief is agnosticism, as we simply do not know beyond the bounds of our own mortality. Sadly ego-driven atheists often claim agnostics are 'sitting on the fence' as if choosing a position is somehow intellectually superior.
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    (Original post by Dragon5555)
    Do you see the birds above you? Do you see the mountains erect? Why do you ask for more and more evidence as if you have no eyes or ears to see or hear, and if you do not perhaps I won't be reaching you anyway.
    I see them. I haven't seen God. There is no evidence to suggest a God, so I don't personally believe in one. That said, there's no proof that there isn't a God, so you can't discount the idea completely. But if we start believing in God, surely that means we have to believe in everything else could exist but cannot be proven.

    What's silly is trying to convince others to change their minds, and that goes on both sides.
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    (Original post by PoliticsandP)
    There is no evidence of god. Equally, there is no evidence of a lack of god, nor will there ever be, sadly. The most rational belief is agnosticism, as we simply do not know beyond the bounds of our own mortality. Sadly ego-driven atheists often claim agnostics are 'sitting on the fence' as if choosing a position is somehow intellectually superior.
    Agnosticism is a statement of certainty, not a statement of belief. The overwhelming of atheists are also agnostics, they lack a belief in a god but do not actively believe that there is no possibility of one.
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    God is dead, you killed it.
    It doesn't even matter anymore, let's move on, shall we?
 
 
 
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