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Brexit: How well do you think negotiations are going? Will we leave with a deal? Watch

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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    It isn't but I'm not surprised you have only heard the pro-EU propaganda. Who proposes every single piece of legislation? The Commission. Almost half of the workers for the Commission are employed by giant corporations or big banks, and any corporation can send lobbyists to bribe the EU to do what they want (principally kill off smaller competitors).

    If you weren't aware I suggest you look into it, because the EU is hand in glove with big corporations.
    Sorry, but saying that big corporations lobby EU politicians is not the same thing as saying "all EU legislation is made by the corporate giants.". If you want to make a point, stop with the hyperbole.

    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Well it's what many economists have admitted considering how wrong they were about the aftershock.
    Oh well in that case there's definitely no chance whatsoever of Brexit going wrong then. :rolleyes:

    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    In terms of countries, not grouping together countries, the US is by far.
    Yes, but the point is we don't need to group them together because the EU already does that, it's called the single market. We export more to the EU than the rest of the world combined. A trade deal with the single market is far, far more valuable than a deal with the US.

    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    This has literally nothing to do with what's happening in Venezuela. If we remove the high EU tariffs (set again by big business who are uncompetitive) on cheap products we don't produce, the cost of living will go down.
    Putting aside the fact that it would likely take a decade or so to set up agreements to reduce these tariffs, the point is that they aren't some sort of magical silver bullet. We might eventually be able to sort out a set of trade deals that suit the UK's interests, but it's a very difficult game to play and we're starting from basically nothing.

    And yet again, we export most of our stuff to the EU, so why on earth would we want to give all that up just for the chance to buy cheaper coffee? Even if we're not going to remain a member of the single market, we need an agreement in place or the economy is going to suffer badly.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    We export more to the EU than the rest of the world combined.
    Why would you lie like that?

    The only reason our trade with the EU is so high is because we are locked into their protectionist club and were forced to ditch the Commonwealth and our global friends.

    (Original post by Dez)
    Putting aside the fact that it would likely take a decade or so to set up agreements to reduce these tariffs
    I suggest you stop trying to mislead people, or if you really are this ignorant learn about what you are trying to talk about first rather than lying to back up a position you can't understand.

    We can unilaterally reduce tarriffs instantly whenever we choose to.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Why would you lie like that?

    The only reason our trade with the EU is so high is because we are locked into their protectionist club and were forced to ditch the Commonwealth and our global friends.
    Regardless of the reason, it's still a fact.

    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    I suggest you stop trying to mislead people, or if you really are this ignorant learn about what you are trying to talk about first rather than lying to back up a position you can't understand.

    We can unilaterally reduce tarriffs instantly whenever we choose to.
    Well that's the UK's future sorted then isn't it? I'm sure we'll be right up there as the top destination for businesses if we have rock bottom tariffs on every import making domestic produce practically worthless, not to mention the terrific effect it'll have on our currency rates. Our service-based economy is also sure to benefit from all the services we can provide to the third world, like… erm… well, I'm sure we'll sort something out.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    There is no credible economic explanation of why Brexit will be a disaster.
    Ummm - I think there is. It is called uncertainty. Waiting to see what happens just is not an option. Supermarkets need about a year of lead time. Most of our food comes from Europe one way or another. Banks and financial businesses need around 18 months planning and although it is expensive to build or move a factory, investment is going to stop whilst the dust settles. Meanwhile, the competition steals a march.

    And as for the US? Well no - they are not our biggest trading partner. That is the EU. And we do have a deal with the US. It is called WTO rules and works very nicely thank you very much. I am not sure I want a free trade deal with the US though. I don't want to eat GM food or chlorinated chicken. And I don't want their expensive, backward looking inefficient health companies taking over out NHS. We have less in common with the US than France or Germany by a country mile... unless you feel that God almighty only provided the earth and everyone on it who isn't American to be raped and pillaged of everything of value for the betterment of the blessed land of America.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    Regardless of the reason, it's still a fact.



    Well that's the UK's future sorted then isn't it? I'm sure we'll be right up there as the top destination for businesses if we have rock bottom tariffs on every import making domestic produce practically worthless, not to mention the terrific effect it'll have on our currency rates. Our service-based economy is also sure to benefit from all the services we can provide to the third world, like… erm… well, I'm sure we'll sort something out.
    It's not a fact, our exports to the EU are 40%, 60% to the rest of the world. It proves a lot that you have to lie to make a point. And I said products we don't produce, if you can read. We already have to heavily subsidise industries like agriculture.

    One minute you like free trade, then you like protectionism. Or do you simply support anything that makes the EU look great.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Ummm - I think there is. It is called uncertainty. Waiting to see what happens just is not an option. Supermarkets need about a year of lead time. Most of our food comes from Europe one way or another. Banks and financial businesses need around 18 months planning and although it is expensive to build or move a factory, investment is going to stop whilst the dust settles. Meanwhile, the competition steals a march.

    And as for the US? Well no - they are not our biggest trading partner. That is the EU. And we do have a deal with the US. It is called WTO rules and works very nicely thank you very much. I am not sure I want a free trade deal with the US though. I don't want to eat GM food or chlorinated chicken. And I don't want their expensive, backward looking inefficient health companies taking over out NHS. We have less in common with the US than France or Germany by a country mile... unless you feel that God almighty only provided the earth and everyone on it who isn't American to be raped and pillaged of everything of value for the betterment of the blessed land of America.
    So you think a trade deal would involve forcing you to consume chlorine-washed chicken...

    If this is the level of logic then we'd better leave things here.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    So you think a trade deal would involve forcing you to consume chlorine-washed chicken...

    If this is the level of logic then we'd better leave things here.
    Yes I do actually. Remember the ill fated TTIP? The one that was so disagreeable, even US Congress voted it down? If that is the starting place for a moderate Obama administration I don't really like to think what a Trump crazed "America First" type of agreement is going to look like. And our government are so weak and helpless they will sign just about anything for an hours worth of good news, even if it does come crashing down around their feet 10 minutes later.

    Why is the US better than Europe? I have never understood this argument. It is like having a happy agreement with your next door neighbour and sacking it off in favour of some unknown bloke in the next town... when you don't have a car.
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    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    It's not a fact, our exports to the EU are 40%, 60% to the rest of the world. It proves a lot that you have to lie to make a point. And I said products we don't produce, if you can read. We already have to heavily subsidise industries like agriculture.
    First off, enough with the name-calling. I'm not going to continue to reply if you won't remain civil.

    Second, I admit this was wrong. I'm pretty sure I read a report saying EU exports were around 60% but it seems to be around 44%, and hasn't beaten non-EU exports since 2008. Despite this, the point I was making (that the EU is a more valuable trading partner than the US) still stands, 44% is a far higher portion of exports than the 14%-ish we send to the US.

    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    One minute you like free trade, then you like protectionism. Or do you simply support anything that makes the EU look great.
    What I support is a decent economy. I don't believe for a second that a few slapdash, unilateral tariff breaks will be sufficient to make up for the loss in EU trade. A set of carefully considered trade agreements might be advantageous to us in the long-term, but we simply don't have a long term in which to set those up. I believe we're far more likely to be better off if we make a deal with the EU.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    First off, enough with the name-calling. I'm not going to continue to reply if you won't remain civil.
    I didn't call any names. If you don't have the respect to read my points rather than arguing against something I've already explained; and give false information you think you possibly read from pro-EU propaganda, then discussion is pointless.

    If you don't know about something, either research into it or don't try to pretend you do.
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    How productive have Brexit negotiations been?

    Probably as productive as this forum thread...
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    How productive have Brexit negotiations been?

    Probably as productive as this forum thread...
    It depends which side you are on.
 
 
 
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