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Spain moves to suspend Catalonia's autonomy Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should Spain allow Catalonia to declare independence?
    Yes, it's only fair after the referendum.
    49.83%
    No, the referendum was illegal.
    24.30%
    Unsure.
    25.87%

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    (Original post by Ganjaweed Rebel)
    It's more like the Catalans attempted to hold a free and fair referendum and the Spanish police started physically abusing them, stealing the ballot boxes and shutting down the online voting platforms only to hide behind the argument that the referendum isn't valid because of how it was conducted.
    No because the referendum was neither free nor fair, it was illegal and unlawful! The referendum wasn't valid, end of. That's the legal reality and not simply an argument they're "hiding behind".
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    The referendum was illegal. You can't just organise an illegal referendum and use it to declare independence. The constitution would have to be changed before Catalionians can legally vote.
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    (Original post by God Almighty)
    Obvious troll spewing rubbish. They didn't know Catalonia would vote to leave and there is no evidence to show that. The Spanish state rightly and lawfully stopped an illegal referendum and they would have done the same to any unauthorised referendum in any region of Spain, regardless of the predicted outcome.
    Humans should be free to associate in mutual willingness rather than begging the permission of some who abuse their own people.
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    Regardless of the legality of the referendum the Spanish governments respnse, both leading up to and after the vote has been appalling and will surely end up being counter productive.


    That is of course unless you think that sending riot police to beat up peaceful protesters, including women and children, is something to be congratulated, in which case you'd be proving many of the Catalan independance activists correct.
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    (Original post by Ganjaweed Rebel)
    Humans should be free to associate in mutual willingness rather than begging the permission of fascist thugs who abuse their own people.
    They're not fascist thugs and no one is falling for your trolling histrionics. There is no overwhelming mutual willingness from the Catalans to be independent so your point is moot. And even if there were, they would have to do it through legal, democratic means.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It was correct, a higher proportion of Catalonians voted for independence (38.5%v37.4%)

    So basically Spain can oppress the people in Catalonia and deny them this right and you are on board with it

    Lex iniusta lex non est (An unjust law is no law at all), was Rosa Parks wrong for ignoring the law? This is a civil rights issue as well
    Trying to use the unofficial, pseudo voting statistics from an illegal referendum to somehow gauge the true opinion of most of Catalonia is moronic. The referendum was illegal, period. Therefore most Catalans in favour of Spain would not have turned out to vote and so you cannot extrapolate anything meaningful from that data at all. In a legal referendum many more would probably turn out and there's no guarantee at all that Catalonia would vote to leave.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Regardless of the legality of the referendum the Spanish governments respnse, both leading up to and after the vote has been appalling and will surely end up being counter productive.


    That is of course unless you think that sending riot police to beat up peaceful protesters, including women and children, is something to be congratulated, in which case you'd be proving many of the Catalan independance activists correct.
    Every developed country has periods when the forces of law and order put the boot in at government request - in the UK for example, where we've witnessed extreme police violence against students in protests in recent years and the police even just killed some random guy in the street (Ian Tomlinson) who was passing by, the officer being found not guilty even of manslaughter, which remains an outrage.

    So it's not just Spain - but there does seem to be a pattern here and it's difficult not to get the impression sometimes that Spain is only pretending to be a democracy and a modern member of the EU. Take Gibralter as an example - instead of attempting diplomatically to discuss the future of the colony, the Spanish engage in openly hostile acts down there and even threats of violence.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Every developed country has periods when the forces of law and order put the boot in at government request - in the UK for example, where we've witnessed extreme police violence against students in protests in recent years and the police even just killed some random guy in the street (Ian Tomlinson) who was passing by, the officer being found not guilty even of manslaughter, which remains an outrage.

    So it's not just Spain - but there does seem to be a pattern here and it's difficult not to get the impression sometimes that Spain is only pretending to be a democracy and a modern member of the EU. Take Gibralter as an example - instead of attempting diplomatically to discuss the future of the colony, the Spanish engage in openly hostile acts down there and even threats of violence.
    Well that is really the greatest success of the liberal denocracy seen in Western Europe and North America, that is has proven to be a very effective facade for the, by its very nature, brutal, authoritarian State apparatus.

    Sometimes we see the mask slip, to show the monstrous beast lurking beneath, as in Catalonia, the DAPL protests, various G20 protests and various other examples over the years.

    I think it is interesting as to where the State has stepped in, particularly since the economic crash of 2008. While the far right, anti-immigrant and nationalist causes have generally gone untouched it has been causes of economic justice, environmentalism and anti-discrimination have faced numerous brutal outbursts.
 
 
 
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