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What do you think of Jacob Rees-Mogg? Watch

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    (Original post by charliertn)
    Hi there!

    What I would like to know is the student youth's opinion about JRM, and if you think he would be suitable for the top spot in parliament as PM. Feel free to discuss policies, his own views etc. Thanks!
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    Can anyone who supports him or wants him to be Tory leader please detail they types of policies they think he would introduce that would be so different to either Cameron or May?

    Please. Because he seems to be more style over substance. What would he do so differently?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Can you disavow yourself of your right wing fantasy that cutting people's benefits, and tax credits helps get them out of poverty? Can you stop pretending that the rise in use of food banks in the UK isn't a non-issue?

    Does cutting a lowly paid person's tax credits, that they use to live on, make them better off?
    The difference here is that you're putting words in my mouth and assuming my position on various items, where as I was accurately reflecting what you actually said.

    The EU has quite clearly changed from inception. It became less of the 'capitalists club' (though still strongly had elements of it) and did some good things on worker rights and the environment. Begrudging remain probably did reflect his position in the end.

    He didn't campaign hard on it because he wasn't that enthusiastic about it.
    There is debate on this issue, and as neither of us can see inside his head we can never really resolve it. But he supported leave only a few years ago, and there are definitely centrist Labour MPs who believe he actively sabotaged the remain campaign, whatever the truth of that. In any case, failure to take a clear position on the most important issue of our day is a remarkable position for a political leader.

    Oh come on...
    It's rather strange that you moan about people going OTT and scaremongering about JRM and then you unleash this BS about Corbyn. Again the Tories seem to have no answer to any of his actual policies and have instead gone for the 'he's a terrorist sympathiser' approach.

    Corbyn is most certainly sincere and honest about his views, however much you may disagree with them. So if sincerity impresses you, why are you not impressed by him?
    I mean, he has done all those things...

    And as sincere as his commitment to 'the cause' may be, I've pointed out reasons why I don't believe him to be honest.

    How does he actually differ from May policy wise? What policies would he introduce that May hasn't? Or that Cameron didn't? Be specific.
    He's an actual conservative, in a way Mrs May is not. It's inconceivable to think he'd run the sort of authoritarian, interventionist, Millliband-lite campaign May did at the last election. He's a free marketeer and a genuine leaver, in the fantasy land where he does take charge I would expect his leadership to reflect that.
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    lol JRM and corbyn are both awful, although I am left wing and so if pushed would still rather corbyn. They are both frankly awful candidates for PM and would probably be more incompetent than Theresa.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    The difference here is that you're putting words in my mouth and assuming my position on various items, where as I was accurately reflecting what you actually said.
    You weren't. I did not say that those on the right set out to screw over poor people. But their actions, such as cutting benefits and tax credits often have that effect.

    I also saw JRM said that it was a great thing that there are food banks because it shows peoples' generosity. That hardly strikes me as being 'in touch'. Any society in which people have to rely on charities to afford to eat, is one which has failed to look after its people. Personally I don't think mothers queuing outside foodbanks for emergency food to have to feed their kids, to be a great thing.


    There is debate on this issue, and as neither of us can see inside his head we can never really resolve it. But he supported leave only a few years ago, and there are definitely centrist Labour MPs who believe he actively sabotaged the remain campaign, whatever the truth of that. In any case, failure to take a clear position on the most important issue of our day is a remarkable position for a political leader.
    Largely because we took an issue with several layers and several parts and expected everyone to take a binary position on it. I was unsure about the EU. There were bits I liked and disliked. I'm guessing Corbyn was the same, Yes he disliked large bits of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he thought the alternative was better.

    He definitely did not 'actively sabotage' the remain campaign. Accuse him of not campaigning that hard, fine, but that's about it. His position was probably along the lines of 'the EU has several problems and urgently needs reform but on balance we're better off in'.

    I mean, he has done all those things...
    I mean, he hasn't. The political right often complain that the left doesn't let them debate their opinion. Yet if someone on the left criticises free market capitalism, they get called a Marxist/extremist and if they so much as question British foreign policy, they get called a terrorist sympathiser. You can't moan about people not respecting your right to hold an opinion if you try to make out that anyone who holds a different opinion to yourself is bad or dangerous.



    He's an actual conservative, in a way Mrs May is not. It's inconceivable to think he'd run the sort of authoritarian, interventionist, Millliband-lite campaign May did at the last election. He's a free marketeer and a genuine leaver, in the fantasy land where he does take charge I would expect his leadership to reflect that.
    You can't really complain about authoritarianism while yearning for a social conservative who wants to tell people how to live their lives and what they can do with their own bodies and relationships.

    But what actual policies do you expect him to introduce? Cameron was a free marketeer, how would Mogg be different?

    Those who support him seem really vague on what they think or even expect him to actually do were he to become leader.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Largely because we took an issue with several layers and several parts and expected everyone to take a binary position on it. I was unsure about the EU. There were bits I liked and disliked. I'm guessing Corbyn was the same, Yes he disliked large bits of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he thought the alternative was better.
    There was a Peston on Sunday around this time last year (or before Article 50 was triggered anyway) in which McDonald basically admitted that he supported Brexit but that they could not leave and have a 'Tory' (presumably free market rather than protectionist ect..) Brexit. Corbyn is likely the same.
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    Yes, his rise is a sure sign of the weakness of the Conservative party. For me, I think the best thing that could happen is the collapse of the Conservative party and the subsequent rise of new parties which are genuinely conservative and rightwing. There is so much talent within the existing party that, if allowed to flourish, could benifit the country greatly. It is also very refreshing to hear JRM expound the values of genuine Conservatism in such a straight forward manner and attempt to ideologically fight against the left wing as, in the last 20 years or so, the zeitgeist has been predominantly leftwing.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    There was a Peston on Sunday around this time last year (or before Article 50 was triggered anyway) in which McDonald basically admitted that he supported Brexit but that they could not leave and have a 'Tory' (presumably free market rather than protectionist ect..) Brexit. Corbyn is likely the same.
    McDonnell is more pro Brexit than Corbyn.

    At the time of the referendum, the idea of a left wing Brexit seeemed barely a possibility. Rather it seemed that Brexit would lead to more unrestrained free market capitalism.

    Now that Corbyn is seen as having a genuinely decent chance of being PM, it's not so straight forward. I will want him to be radical as a leader, nationalising keg industries and onvetssint significantly into others.

    The great irony of course is that it may well be Corbyn who benefits most from the Brexit that right wing Tories fought so hard for.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You weren't. I did not say that those on the right set out to screw over poor people. But their actions, such as cutting benefits and tax credits often have that effect.

    I also saw JRM said that it was a great thing that there are food banks because it shows peoples' generosity. That hardly strikes me as being 'in touch'. Any society in which people have to rely on charities to afford to eat, is one which has failed to look after its people. Personally I don't think mothers queuing outside foodbanks for emergency food to have to feed their kids, to be a great thing.

    Largely because we took an issue with several layers and several parts and expected everyone to take a binary position on it. I was unsure about the EU. There were bits I liked and disliked. I'm guessing Corbyn was the same, Yes he disliked large bits of it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he thought the alternative was better.

    He definitely did not 'actively sabotage' the remain campaign. Accuse him of not campaigning that hard, fine, but that's about it. His position was probably along the lines of 'the EU has several problems and urgently needs reform but on balance we're better off in'.

    I mean, he hasn't. The political right often complain that the left doesn't let them debate their opinion. Yet if someone on the left criticises free market capitalism, they get called a Marxist/extremist and if they so much as question British foreign policy, they get called a terrorist sympathiser. You can't moan about people not respecting your right to hold an opinion if you try to make out that anyone who holds a different opinion to yourself is bad or dangerous.

    You can't really complain about authoritarianism while yearning for a social conservative who wants to tell people how to live their lives and what they can do with their own bodies and relationships.

    But what actual policies do you expect him to introduce? Cameron was a free marketeer, how would Mogg be different?

    Those who support him seem really vague on what they think or even expect him to actually do were he to become leader.
    This debate is increasingly stupid because you insist on arguing against things I have never said. Where have I said I yearn for Rees-Mogg? The strongest I have said is that I prefer him to May, whom I have despised since long before she was PM.

    But I stand by my comments on Corbyn. The British public has apparently decided they aren't that bothered by his extremely dubious record, and that concerns me. But it certainly does not mean I have to mollify my opinions of a man who has spent a career supporting every tin-pot anti-western cause going.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    Of course you say that. Think that. Who admits to being narrow minded, even to themselves?

    This is hardly complicated stuff. No-one has to agree with you (or me, or anyone else) on everything, and if they don't it doesn't make them a piece of sh it.

    Who earth are you to think you know all the answers?? To judge others?
    Lol okay time you stepped outside and got off the internet. This isn't that deep.
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    (Original post by bones-mccoy)
    Lol okay time you stepped outside and got off the internet. This isn't that deep.
    Not if you are shallow.
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    it would be wonderful to have an enthusiastic Catholic in charge. he could start by getting rid of the discriminatory laws about Catholics being forbidden to ascend the throne.
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    I lived in Batheaston back in June, at the time of the election, which was just in his parliamentary constituency. So i hold the perhaps unique view of being one of the few people here who had a chance to vote for him in an election.

    I voted against him. For many reasons.
    1) He represents the old school Tory archetype....Eton alumni, posh, rich...to the extent he even got his childhood nanny to canvass with him in a 1997 campaign for the Fife constituency. So I instantly find nothing relatable about him.

    2) In an interview once, i heard him suggest that the rich were the "wealth creators" of our society, and if we treat them too unfairly (i.e. with higher taxes), then none of their wealth would trickle down. Right. Cause trickle-down economics for the rich works wonders for the poor, when they can stash their cash in offshore tax havens (for the record, I am from Guernsey, which is one of said havens...and living here sucks too)

    3) He is a strong supporter of raising tuition fees....as soon who has just come off the back of 4 years at uni, and someone who doesn't have the luxury of student loans (that's guernsey for you), my parents have been forced to fork out £50,000 for me to get a degree and have a chance at pursuing my desired career (scientific research, fyi-more specifically, with a medical focus). I don't see how I should essentially be punished for wanting to study a subject, and get a career that is potentially useful to the human race. Plenty of European countries out there that offer free tuition to their students, and they're doing just fine

    4) He supports Donald trump, and has been a passionate defender of him. Need i say more?
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    A jumped up papist who needs to pipe down with his antediluvian views.
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    (Original post by Puppo)
    lol JRM and corbyn are both awful, although I am left wing and so if pushed would still rather corbyn. They are both frankly awful candidates for PM and would probably be more incompetent than Theresa.
    why don't you like corbyn??
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    (Original post by cactuss)
    why don't you like corbyn??
    Why ever not?
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    (Original post by Puppo)
    Why ever not?
    idk he seems like a pretty good guy
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    (Original post by cactuss)
    idk he seems like a pretty good guy
    that's fine we all have different opinions. For me I don't think he's effective and lacks charisma. He strains too hard to be "normal" and "working class" when he is the complete opposite. He is utterly vapid and no appearance on goggle box is going to mask that. This meticulously cultivated persona alongside his complacency (eg his frankly shocking lack of action during the brexit vote) make for an unelectable politician. As I have my reasons for not being a fan, I'm sure you have your reasons for the contrary. I so miss the days of Tony Benn.
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    (Original post by Puppo)
    that's fine we all have different opinions. For me I don't think he's effective and lacks charisma. He strains too hard to be "normal" and "working class" when he is the complete opposite. He is utterly vapid and no appearance on goggle box is going to mask that. This meticulously cultivated persona alongside his complacency (eg his frankly shocking lack of action during the brexit vote) make for an unelectable politician. As I have my reasons for not being a fan, I'm sure you have your reasons for the contrary. I so miss the days of Tony Benn.

    I don't want to argue with you, i have just heard people saying that they don't like him and wanted to know exactly why so I could make a proper decision about him.
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